Mike is making us breakfast in his home outside of Madison. A pot of coffee, a loaf of his famous chocolate chip banana bread, eggs, homemade tomato corn salsa, fresh sliced mango, and lots of bacon. It is a feast to celebrate our arrival in Wisconsin. We arrived last night after a second 15 hour day of driving.
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| Dave's Road Trek and Wisconsin State Capital, Madison |
Mike is now a Program Director at the University of Wisconsin Madison in the College of Engineering working with graduate students in the engine technology department.
Childhood and Economics in Rural Minnesota
Over breakfast Mike tells us about growing up in rural (200-resident town) Northern Minnesota, the second of five kids, raised by a widowed mother. He was the first of his generation to get a college degree and ultimately a MS in Engineering. But since then three of his four siblings also completed college and in the next generation nearly all of his nieces and nephews are college graduates - over half in engineering. For Mike’s siblings, however, getting through college was circuitous - Naval service and starting businesses, getting married and divorces, transferring from community technical colleges, and mentors and encouragement at the right moments was crucial.
“Today there are only two sources of revenue coming into rural communities: trucking and farming.” Mike explained. “And the driverless car will eventually take out trucking.” “Most farmers do it because they love it, it is in their heritage. Small farms are rarely profitable.” Many truck drivers also farm. Mike’s boss at UW-M maintains his family’s 200 acre farm. Mike’s brother in Wyoming has a 1000 acre farm 4 hours drive from his home where he grows alfalfa. For none of these would the farm support them.
Big farms, on the other hand are big, are sophisticated operations with fewer and fewer employees and more and more mechanization. Mike remembers summer jobs working on farms. His mom couldn’t afford pocket money for his siblings and him. They HAD to work to have money. And the work on a farm taught him a lot of mechanical, electrical and troubleshooting skills which, along with 7th and 8th grade shop classes, stood him well as he ultimately pursued engineering. In his department at UW, he has students paying college tuition to take the types of shop classes he took in 7th grade because they didn’t have available these classes in high school.
Homecrest, an outdoor furniture manufacturer in Wadina, Mike’s High School town of 5000, was put out of business by imports. And when large companies proposed opening plants in the town, the anti-union attitude of the town kept them out. The owner of the hardware store, lumber yard and construction company also influenced the city to keep out competition. Today the town has shrunk to 2500 and many buildings on main street are boarded up. In contrast Perham, a town 25 miles west has grown from 2000 to 5000 in the same time period. It has a an entrepreneurial civic leader and pro-business outlook who has started a number of small businesses and the town now has welcomed larger outside firms, union or not. Land-O-Lakes, Tuff (dog food), and others have locations there.
“Today there are only two sources of revenue coming into rural communities: trucking and farming.” Mike explained. “And the driverless car will eventually take out trucking.” “Most farmers do it because they love it, it is in their heritage. Small farms are rarely profitable.” Many truck drivers also farm. Mike’s boss at UW-M maintains his family’s 200 acre farm. Mike’s brother in Wyoming has a 1000 acre farm 4 hours drive from his home where he grows alfalfa. For none of these would the farm support them.
Big farms, on the other hand are big, are sophisticated operations with fewer and fewer employees and more and more mechanization. Mike remembers summer jobs working on farms. His mom couldn’t afford pocket money for his siblings and him. They HAD to work to have money. And the work on a farm taught him a lot of mechanical, electrical and troubleshooting skills which, along with 7th and 8th grade shop classes, stood him well as he ultimately pursued engineering. In his department at UW, he has students paying college tuition to take the types of shop classes he took in 7th grade because they didn’t have available these classes in high school.
Homecrest, an outdoor furniture manufacturer in Wadina, Mike’s High School town of 5000, was put out of business by imports. And when large companies proposed opening plants in the town, the anti-union attitude of the town kept them out. The owner of the hardware store, lumber yard and construction company also influenced the city to keep out competition. Today the town has shrunk to 2500 and many buildings on main street are boarded up. In contrast Perham, a town 25 miles west has grown from 2000 to 5000 in the same time period. It has a an entrepreneurial civic leader and pro-business outlook who has started a number of small businesses and the town now has welcomed larger outside firms, union or not. Land-O-Lakes, Tuff (dog food), and others have locations there.
Environment and Climate Change
Mike is an engineer, scientist, and a thinker with nuanced opinions about most things. We asked him about climate change. He knows that temperatures are rising. He knows that humans are having an effect on the world and environment. However, he works closely with the team at UW who perform simulations on the combustion of engines -- complex systems. He knows that together they are always being surprised by how their models are wrong and must be revised. When he looks at predictions of both the causes and effects of climate change he is skeptical that the simulations of climate -- which are exponentially more complex than engine systems -- are correct. So he is left not convinced that it is CO2 which is the root cause. “Could it be water vapor?” he wonders, as it has a higher greenhouse gas effect than CO2. “What about the vapor trails of airplanes?” he asks.
Furthermore, he is not so sure that warming will be all bad. “Sure there will be problems. But some things like growing seasons will get better. I’m thinking that it may be 50:50 downside and upside with climate change.”
Steve, Mike’s brother, has just finished a career at Minnesota Power. His last role was overseeing alternative power production. Steve was part of Minnesota Power implementing a strategy of producing 100% renewable energy, a strategy which is well underway. They have installed many windmills in North Dakota and using high capacity DC power transmission lines they bring all the way to Wisconsin to sell. To fill production dips due to low wind, they buy hydro-power from Canada. When they have too much wind, they sell the excess to Canada which closes a valve on their hydro dam. We ask if Steve is proud of this accomplishment. “Yes. He is proud of the economic impact -- it is less expensive to produce power from wind and you can sell it for more as “clean power.” We ask if he is an environmentalist. “No. Steve tells me that environmentalists are against anything that makes economic sense.” They are protesting the bird deaths by the wind mills.
Furthermore, he is not so sure that warming will be all bad. “Sure there will be problems. But some things like growing seasons will get better. I’m thinking that it may be 50:50 downside and upside with climate change.”
Steve, Mike’s brother, has just finished a career at Minnesota Power. His last role was overseeing alternative power production. Steve was part of Minnesota Power implementing a strategy of producing 100% renewable energy, a strategy which is well underway. They have installed many windmills in North Dakota and using high capacity DC power transmission lines they bring all the way to Wisconsin to sell. To fill production dips due to low wind, they buy hydro-power from Canada. When they have too much wind, they sell the excess to Canada which closes a valve on their hydro dam. We ask if Steve is proud of this accomplishment. “Yes. He is proud of the economic impact -- it is less expensive to produce power from wind and you can sell it for more as “clean power.” We ask if he is an environmentalist. “No. Steve tells me that environmentalists are against anything that makes economic sense.” They are protesting the bird deaths by the wind mills.
Politics, President Trump and Government “telling us what to do”
Mike tells us he did not vote for Trump, but his siblings probably did. But at the UW (Madison is a very liberal town), he heard colleagues saying that they did not know any “Smart Trump Voters.” This made Mike think, “Really? You don’t think there are any smart Trump voters?” I tell him about a description of classes in America that I read in a book. He thinks his explanation is too simple. But he counters that he believes the split in perceptions/ politics is between “those people who receive more from the government or from work.” He uses as an example from his Wyoming brother’s experience. When he used to work for a coal mining company, he was very conservative. But once he retired he signed up for Obama Care and became a farmer. He then became very methodical about getting the various farming incentives. Mike teases him that he used to say climate change was a big hoax, but now he has become very liberal.
We bring up the “resentment” described in Kathy Cramer’s book (see Dave’s blog on background reading) by rural Wisconsinites toward Madison. He agrees. “Most of the research projects are just to tell us what we already know.” “People don’t like being told what to do.” Mike gives this as a key resentment towards Obama Care. People HAVE to have insurance or they’ll be fined. “They resent that.” We bring up the analogy of auto insurance. Mike doesn’t take the bait. “They drive anyway.” “Nearly half of my auto insurance is to cover uninsured motorists!”
“Wolves,” Mike told us, “is a good example of government making rules that may make sense in Madison but don’t in the north.” Mike’s brother and four other people bought a piece of marshy land in Minnesota for hunting. They even plant some corn on it to attract and feed the deer. Mike says it is almost like “farming deer.” But then wolves arrived. And for two years his brother has not seen a fawn on the property. Finally they called DNR (Wisconsin’s vilified (at least among sportsmen) Department of Natural Resources) who came out and trapped and removed 13 wolves. “They don’t have natural predators” Mike explains “they will multiply as long as there is prey.” DNR moved the wolves to another location. The government treats “shooting a wolf as worse than shooting a person!” Mike summarizes. “How about moving a pack of wolves into the park here in Madison?” he wonders out loud.
GunsWe bring up the “resentment” described in Kathy Cramer’s book (see Dave’s blog on background reading) by rural Wisconsinites toward Madison. He agrees. “Most of the research projects are just to tell us what we already know.” “People don’t like being told what to do.” Mike gives this as a key resentment towards Obama Care. People HAVE to have insurance or they’ll be fined. “They resent that.” We bring up the analogy of auto insurance. Mike doesn’t take the bait. “They drive anyway.” “Nearly half of my auto insurance is to cover uninsured motorists!”
“Wolves,” Mike told us, “is a good example of government making rules that may make sense in Madison but don’t in the north.” Mike’s brother and four other people bought a piece of marshy land in Minnesota for hunting. They even plant some corn on it to attract and feed the deer. Mike says it is almost like “farming deer.” But then wolves arrived. And for two years his brother has not seen a fawn on the property. Finally they called DNR (Wisconsin’s vilified (at least among sportsmen) Department of Natural Resources) who came out and trapped and removed 13 wolves. “They don’t have natural predators” Mike explains “they will multiply as long as there is prey.” DNR moved the wolves to another location. The government treats “shooting a wolf as worse than shooting a person!” Mike summarizes. “How about moving a pack of wolves into the park here in Madison?” he wonders out loud.
Mike and his brothers are hunters. Mike joined the NRA. But when it stopped focusing on gun safety many years ago he revoked his membership. “I own lots of guns. But I don’t own handguns. There is only one purpose for a handgun, to shoot a person.” AR (automatic rifles) are fun to shoot, no question about it. But there is no purpose for them. Mike believes the only way forward is to agree guns are okay but we need to minimize deaths.
Health Care
“This is the biggest problem,” Mike said matter of factly about health care. It represents 20% of our GNP. He explains that when the law changed to force all hospitals to take uninsured patients, they began to go broke. Then a law was passed that allowed them to write off the losses from these patients. And pretty soon they were writing off investments in new wings, new equipment, etc. “Drive by a hospital in a rural town in northern Wisconsin.” Mike suggests, “you’ll see an incredible facility.” They have all sorts of equipment they don’t need.
The three biggest problems are: drug company profits, lawyers (apologies to Dave) and the resulting cost of malpractice insurance, and perverse incentives at hospitals (see rural hospital comment above) and doctors to perform more tests. “How do we solve it?” we ask.
The three biggest problems are: drug company profits, lawyers (apologies to Dave) and the resulting cost of malpractice insurance, and perverse incentives at hospitals (see rural hospital comment above) and doctors to perform more tests. “How do we solve it?” we ask.
“The problem is thinking one size fits all.” An example is HIPPA. This is a $1 problem which received a $100 solution. “I’m paying my children’s insurance and now that they are over 18 can’t see their records without filling out paperwork and getting their permission.” Maybe the best is if “each state figures it out.” California can do a single payer system. And then the states can pick the best solution.
We ask Mike if healthcare is a right. He responds “No. It is like roads. Roads are not a right.” The government should make rules and set up guidelines for efficiency. But how it is paid for is another question.”
We ask Mike if healthcare is a right. He responds “No. It is like roads. Roads are not a right.” The government should make rules and set up guidelines for efficiency. But how it is paid for is another question.”
Kids Today and the “Boy Problem”
We’ve been talking for two hours straight. Mike takes a shower and we get ready to go with him for a short driving tour of Madison. But before we go he says: “I’ve got three more points I want to make.” So we turn back on the recording app. One of these Mike introduces as the “Boy Problem.” The only group that can be vilified or stereotyped without consequence is the white male. All other groups are protected. “The only accolades boys get are for sports.” “I saw a report which showed that for people under 30 men make less than women.” In Madison Mike sees a number of men who stay at home while their wives work because women can make more. In the engineering department Mike sees a big push to attract more women and minorities even though men are generally have more affinity.
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| Engineering buildings - UW-Madison |
Madison Impressions:
Our Listening over, we followed Mike into Madison and were wowed by the beauty. The city is an isthmus between two large, clear lakes surrounded by trees in the midst of fall foliage. The state capital stands prominent standing on a rise looking out over the lakes. A weekly summer farmer’s market surrounds it each Saturday and Mike reports it is so popular it is hard to move among the stalls. The University buildings are impressive and varied in style -- blocks of engineering, a large medical center, frat row looking out over the larger of the two lakes. The city makes a very favorable impression on us. We say thank you and goodbye to Mike and begin our drive north.
-- Peter
-- Peter
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