Expanding His Kingdom

Dave, Pastor Jerry (see Blog: Breaking Bread with Jane and Pastor Jerry), and I met Joe in his offices in downtown Racine.  He had recently sold the company and stayed on only in a consulting and coaching capacity.  But the transition did not work out as he and the company had hoped.  So he has stepped back into the driver’s seat.  When we arrived, Joe was in a small office and we could overhear him on the phone with a supplier.  They had not yet sent to Joe the estimate he needed.  He was very clear in his booming, confident voice that he needed the estimate by the end of the day.  Coming from the construction business I’ve been party to just such a phone conversation or email exchange.

Joe’s business is complex and very well suited to a region of manufacturing facilities plants.  He is a general contractor building and remodeling industrial buildings. He also specializes in rigging -- the removal and installation and retrofitting of heavy equipment at power plants, manufacturing facilities, huge boilers and assembly equipment.  He has crews who maintain this type of equipment.  Each job is competitive, complex, has inherent safety challenges and endless problem solving with tight lead times and high stakes.  His employees are blue collar tradesman.

As you’ll read, Joe is a full-steam-ahead doer.  He’s been financially successful and he is very generous with his foundation’s money and his time and talent.  But Joe, himself is out of the public eye.  His picture, or even his name is not mentioned on the website of his company, or the local newspaper.  His 501c3 foundation does not have a website.

Joe’s Early Years

Joe’s parents moved to Racine when he was very small and he has lived there ever since.  His maternal grandfather was “100% Italian.” He owned a local bowling alley. His grandmother was Dutch.  “She controlled the action.  She was the matriarch.  She took care of everything for everyone.”  And for the most part Joe was raised by her.  “My grandmother really brought me up,  because my parents worked all of the time.”  Joe’s father grew up in Racine and “was in the service.”

Out and Back

Joe (describing his teenage years):  I went to school and left home when I was 15 years old. I had enough credits in high school, but they wouldn’t let me graduate.  So I just quit school.  I was bored. I said, “I’m not going to school any more.”  I moved to a place called Ladysmith, WI. (Further north and west of Antigo in the rural northern part of Wisconsin.)  I moved into the back of this old lady’s house and worked at a Holiday Gas Station.  I did that until I was 17, or 17 1/2 then I moved back to Racine.  

Peter: Why did you leave home at 15?

Joe: I just needed to leave home.  I knew what was going on in the world and "I could handle it."  After awhile I realized I didn’t know what was going on and it was time to find out.  I came back to Racine.  My parents accepted me back. I don’t think it was something my dad really wanted to do but my mom said, “yeah, he’s coming back.”

Learning a Trade

Joe began as an apprentice auto mechanic at the local Rambler dealership.  Then he moved to Racine Steel Foundry.  In order to qualify for their apprenticeship he needed to get a GED.  So he took a test and was told by the local college that he’d qualify as a Junior; would he like to enroll in college?  Joe said, “I didn’t want to do that.  I just wanted to learn a trade.”  He started in 1967 at $2.71/hr and worked an average of 80 hours a week.  He finished the 8000 hours of apprenticeship and became a journeyman in only 2 years and seven months!  By now he was married and “shortly after that she got pregnant” with a son.  Joe’s wife worked as well as a controller at four or five companies including CNH (Case New Holland) where she worked for ten years.  Joe recalls, “That worked out very well.  Then eventually I told her one day, ‘Honey it is time for you to quit. I’ll take care of business, you take care of our son.’ So that is what we did.”

Business Growth and Success

For a period Joe worked for the largest rigger in southeast Wisconsin.  And on the 3rd shift he worked at AMC (American Motors assembly plant in Kenosha).  He noticed the contractors who were moving in and out of the foundry and AMC and liked what he saw. He decided to start his own business. “I said one day to my wife, I’m going into business.”  

Racine Steel, his former employer, was his first client.  He won a big project to move equipment during a plant shut down.  He needed to hire 50 tradesmen.  He told his client “I don’t have any money.” They said, “No problem.  We’ll pay you every Friday.” So Joe turned in an invoice on Wednesday, was paid Friday, and could make payroll for his employees.  He tells us that in all his years running his business he has only lost money one year, “And that was because a client went bankrupt.” 

One of Joe's business operations - where we met him in Racine

Joe explains he never advertised.  He ran around with a bunch of quarters and called his clients.  He “Needed to make the eye to eye contact.”  In summary, “We grew.  Grew rapidly.  Even when companies were going out of business we were moving them. Down to the south.  A couple to Canada.  Down to Mexico.”

Best Tradesmen in the Area 

A theme in Joe’s story is one of the pride of knowing a trade.  And the lack of people entering the trades today.  He features the fact that he personally is qualified in four trades: Machine Repairman, Millwright (the craft of installs, dismantles, moves machinery in factories, power plants, etc.) Ironworker (structural steel fabrication of buildings, bridges, etc.) and Teamster (truck driving).

“We had the best tradesmen in the area,” he recalls of the Racine area.  He then laments, “But a lot of the tradesmen have retired.  And a lot of the young people have not picked it up.”  He continues, “It’s great to have a trade.”  But adds, “[But] everyone wants to work with computers.  No one wants to work with their back anymore.”

Religious Journey

Joe’s maternal grandmother brought Joe and his aunt and two cousins, and occasionally his mother, to the Calvin Memorial Church in Racine each Sunday morning during his youth. (Joe’s father “would never go, because he was Catholic.  Never did convert.”)  Then “we all had Sunday dinner at grandma’s house.”  He then “fell away from the church” when he left home.  Then when he met his wife she was going to a Lutheran church on the north side of Racine.  So for the next years they attended that church together.  He recalls, “We began going there.  We were married there.  We kept going to church every Sunday but never were involved in anything. ‘We’re going to church, we’re cool.’  We gave our two or three dollars in the basket.  We thought we were doing the world a favor.  That we were doing the lord a favor.”

From Lutheran Church to Grace Church...and hooked

At the same time they were shopping.  Joe’s cousin attended Grace Church.  “There was a Saturday night service “Church just right for a Saturday night.”  So we’d go to Saturday night service and then we’d go to Sunday at the Lutheran Church.”

Peter: You were certainly trying to find something.

Joe: The Lutheran church you just couldn’t feel anything.  Just going to church and going through the motions.  We knew there was more than that.  At that time Pastor Warren [was at Grace]. And there were 10 or 12 worship teams.  When you got up to sing you could feel the hair on your arms stand up.  You could feel the spirit.  We decided “this is where we want to be.”  So we got involved in Grace Church. One of the first things I did for Grace was for Jerry, at the old church.  One of the floors was coming down.  So I went in and jacked up the floor and put some reinforcing concrete under it on a Saturday morning.  And from that point on it was like, “what else can I do?”  My wife and I then got involved in the Saturday night services.  We started serving the meals, cleaning up afterwards.  The more we got involved the more we wanted to get involved.  We felt for the community.  My cousins were involved.  My grandson was born just when we were leaving the old church coming to the new.

Missionary Projects

Joe becomes even more animated now as he shares stories of his construction missionary projects.  “One day Pastor Jerry called and said he had a situation.  An earthen dam had washed out in Bolivia. Can you help them?”  So Joe tells of how he went to Bolivia and got involved.  This was a jungle river that had overflown its banks and flooded several villages.  Joe tells how he “Showed them how to rebuild.”  Jerry interjects with admiration, “Really they rerouted the whole river!”  Joe continues with the engineering details explaining how they built a bunch of piles of dirt. In each pile they placed tires which were cabled down to concrete footings buried in the earth.  But to solve future erosion, they found a local Bermuda grass with two foot long blades and planted it on the earthworks so the water would glide off the grass and not erode the soil.  “Haven’t had erosion in 10, 12 years,” Joe concludes.  “No, maybe 20 years!” he corrects.

“We kissed the ground when we got home,” he adds.  Joe describes his wife, “she’s blond and  blue eyes.  I said, “Put a hat on.  She’s walking the streets and everyone is looking at her.”  Joe and his wife have only been back in Racine for three weeks when Pastor Jerry says to Joe, “I’ve got a problem in Panama.”  It turns out not to be a canal that needs to be built, as I conjecture, but a building for a summer camp with structural steel trusses that “need to be done.”

Joe recalls, “Jerry’s preaching all the time.  What are the Lord’s gifts to you?  What are you going to do for the Kingdom?  I said, I’ve got this gift now.  I knew I could do this work.  But I didn’t know I could do it to help expand the kingdom.  So I said, “This is what I want to do. Every time there was a construction trip, we’d go on it and just use the gifts we’d been given.”

By now Joe and his wife have been on 36 trips.  Mainly to Central and South America and the Dominican Republic.  They use a combination of US Evangelical Christians from Grace Church and beyond who have a variety of skills -- from very little (Jerry recalls helping to dig one hole before being relieved) to more skilled.  

Joe has taken “7 or 8 of my [talented tradesmen] employees went on these trips.  They always say ‘I want to go with you.’  They see the impact.”  And then he works with local volunteers and hired tradesmen.  Joe doesn’t like to paint or do drywall (although he can and has, he clarifies). He wants to do big building projects.  He brings some equipment with him and rents the rest locally.

Joe: You know you are there to make a difference and impact the Kingdom. When they ask ‘What are you doing here?’  We say, ‘We’re here because God has blessed us to bless you.’” He continues, “Working with these people… they have nothing and they have more joy than 90% of the United States. You got to figure out.  Where are they getting that joy.  Where is it coming from?  It’s coming from the Lord.  Once you realize that, serving him becomes so much better.  And I’ve continued.  Whatever comes up.  I really want to build a building that will have an impact and allow a lot of people to gather together and praise God.  And that is where it all came from.  It started with Pastor Jerry.

Each project is a challenge:  The logistics of getting the materials on site, the equipment, the workers and the weather.  Joe recently returned from the Dominican Republic where the weather posed a particular challenge.  He tells the story--

An an illustration Joe relates the details of a recent trip to the Dominican Republic.  The weather was forecast to rain.  The rain held off: “thank you Lord.” But on the third day it began raining every two hours for an hour: “Satan got in the midst of things.”  Nonetheless, they got the building “in the air” before leaving.

Joe: So every time I go we think there is no way we are going to get it done.  So I just say, ‘Lord, this is your job, so what are we going to do to get it done?’  So far it has always worked out.  Somehow it all comes together.  They say His plan is always perfect.  Well, it is!  Because it always gets done.  I wish I could say it is all me.  But it is none of me.  I just got the direction.

BRICKS - Joe’s Foundation to Expand the Kingdom

I ask Joe how he decides how to focus his Time, Talent and Treasure.

Joe: Basically a lot of mine is for missions.  It is a 501c3 and it is called Bricks (BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS IN CHRIST’S KINGDOM THRU SERVICE INC) and what we try to do is go into the mission field and get people involved in mission.  People want to get involved but they can’t afford it.  Or there is something going on, say in the Dominican Republic, but they don’t have enough to build or plan.  We look at all of that. Most of the time my wife says, “Do what you think is right.”  But because I’ve made some mistakes I go “Lord, is this where you want me to do this?”  And I kind of wait for a feeling.  I wouldn’t say it is a soft word, but it is a feeling that says “Yeah, this is right.” When you do that then, you take that treasure and you give it to whatever it happens to be. And all of the money we have in our 501c3 is going to go to Kingdom expansion.  It's to make a difference in the Kingdom. That is what we look at.

Peter: Domestically or also internationally?

Joe: We do it domestically.  With the Houston wash out we just sent a check down there. We knew a couple of companies. We sent the money to help them [those who had lost their homes] to get reestablished.

Peter: Are you doing things in Racine County?

Joe: Racine county? Only on a small basis.  Because most of the time I don’t have to give money, I give my time, my equipment or my ability as a company.  At one point Fritz [a friend at Grace Church] and I had set up a program with all of the inner city Churches and doing projects for them.  We’d tell them, “What do you need? How can we help you?” And we’d go in on Saturdays or during the week and help them with anything that needed to get done.  And that lasted for a couple of years until we finally came to the point where they just stood there. We did all of the work, but they had guys who were just standing there and could have been doing the work with us.  And they just said “No, you do it.”  Whereas when I go into the mission field, I never get that.  The guys [in Panama or DR] are saying “What can we do?” “How can we help you?”  Even if they don’t know what to do they want to offer their time and talent, even if it is lack of talent they want to learn and they want to show you that they care as much as you do.

Workers in Today’s United States

Work Ethic

Joe is forceful at several points in our conversation about the lack of work ethic among people who depend on government support.  His offices are in downtown Racine, which has a large urban poor population, many of whom are black.  Here are some of his comments--

Joe: The problem with this country is the people just don’t care because they are handing it out.  Why should I work when I can get it handed to me? Even if you are in a wheelchair, this probably sounds a little criminal, how are you going to accomplish self esteem if you don’t accomplish something everyday? My attitude is every day when I get up I need to make a difference.  If everybody in the country would get up in the morning wanting to make a difference, we wouldn’t have the societal problems we have today.  But if you can go out there and sweep a floor, if you can go in your wheelchair and pick up a piece of paper, clean out a building.  Then those people have to do that. There is something they can do besides sit all day long watch a 60” TV and eat bon bons.  And we pay for it.  I think there needs to be a change in philosophy.  Will it change over night?  I don’t think so.  But it has taken 40, 50 years to develop. How do you break that?  That is what the Democrats are doing.  The more you give out the more they will want to come back to you.  That’s really what I see all the time with that.

I ask Joe about how he sees the role of government vs. church groups, vs. non-profits.  

Joe: I would probably be very narrow sighted in this but I look at people who can work but don’t want to work.  I think Trump made a good statement yesterday.  He said “Our welfare society is coming to an end.  We’re reviewing all of this and we know we are being taken for a ride by so many people.”  You can see it happen every day.  The other problem is you’ve got some of these groups that have been on welfare for three, four generations and never come off.  There’s got to be a way to stop that.  And the government could help with that but you have to put the hammer down.  And if they don’t put the hammer down nothing is going to change.  At this point I’m hoping that Trump puts the hammer down.  Because a lot of these people who aren’t doing anything, I mean there are some strong guys out there that could be learning trades. And they could be out there working and making a future for themselves and developing a self esteem. And if they don’t do that, where is our society going? That’s the way I look at it.

Peter: Why aren’t they.  Why aren't’ they in here learning a trade with you?

Joe: Because I think they get handed everything they need, just enough to make em… I look at one kid, I work out at the health club every day.  I look at this one kid and he is going to school.  But he is only going to school because he gets paid to go to school.  I listen to these guys in the locker room.  “I wouldn’t go to school if I didn’t get paid to go.” Okay, (Joe asks rhetorically) why are you getting paid to go to school? Everyone else has to PAY to go to school.  Either the mother or the grandmother is getting supported and they make sure that they have enough to support this kid so they can get by. With welfare here the black families,... if you have one kid you get this, if you have two you get that, it comes to if you have 10 kids you get the house and the car.  You get $1200 per month for each child.  Why should they work?  They (the mothers) take the kids and give them to grandma and they go out on the town.  Their nails, their hair is all puffed and buffed.  They got a cell phone this (hand gesture) big.  And I’m not just talking the black group.  I’m talking anyone who is in that society whose used to being able to doing nothing but being paid for it.  And there is a lot of it.

Skills Gap

I ask about the skills gap -- available jobs and un/underemployed people. Joe describes what he does in his company.

Joe: Well, we train our own guys.  When I was union we’d work with the [union] apprentices.  I worked with at least 30 or 40 apprentices over the years.  And now that I’m non-union, I interview them and we do all of the trades here.  I’ll bring in my young guys and try them out. And my guys who are mentors and teachers, they don’t want to be, but they’re going to be.  Because I always tell them, “You remember where you came from? Someone taught you.  And it is now time for you to teach them. Cause if we don’t, we’re basically going to have nothing.”

Peter: How do you get that great trades-person to play that mentor-ship role?

Joe: I have meetings with them.  I tell them, “You are going to do this.”  Once I have the heart to heart with them…  I take the young guys and I tell them this guy is going to work with you.  But you are only going to work with them for 3-4 months. Then you are moving over to this guy for 3-4 months., etc.  Because I want them to be well rounded and learn all of the trades.  Most of [the mentors] have become a little more soft hearted and willing to work with [new employees]. And they’re getting better at it.  When you are not forced to work with people who do not have the ability and you can always hand pick everybody, great.  But in society today you can’t do that.  There is a MAJOR shortage of trades people.

Trade Unions

Peter: Why did you go from union to non-union?

Joe: I was in the union and had 350 people working for me. And we were doing about $1 Million per month at AMC (American Motors).  And every month I got [Union leaders] knocking on my door and saying “I want more millwrights, more teamsters, etc.”  I got sick of that; fighting with that.  I actually had to get up on a chair at CNH one day. They sent this big guy in named Brent. He was probably 6’7, 6’8”.  And he started telling me like this (finger in sternum).  And I said, hold on, Brent.  And I went and got a chair.  I stood on the chair and I said, “Now let me tell you what I’m going to do.”  “Because this is my company, not yours.”  And I fired all of his people that day.  I fired 25 ironworkers and replaced them with 25 millwright workers. “You’re not going to tell me how to run my company.”  And from that point on I said, “I gotta get out of this, 'cause these guys are trying to strong arm me.”  And then we were late on one of our benefit payments by 3 or 4 days. In the contract they charge you a 5% penalty.  I’d been paying for years and years. And our benefits in those days were $50-60,000 per month.  And they are going to charge me a 5% penalty?  I said, “I’m not doing this.  I’m done."  So I retired for six months [from the rigging business]. And then after 6 months I went back into business non-union.  Besides that, I was bored.

Issue Topics

We shifted to national issues: Trump, Health care, Climate Change and Washington Gridlock.  Joe had clear opinions on each.

Trump

Peter: Who did you want to be the republican candidate from the primaries?

Joe: Trump.

Peter: How do you think things are going now?

Joe:  Well you look at how things are going with the Dems just trying to blow him out of the water on every move he makes.  And I think that is the same thing that is happening with part of the Republican Party.  I think this guy came in with no relationships with government at all, and he is making a lot of things happen that they don’t like to see things happen this fast.  I like Mitch’s comment: “Well things don’t move as fast as he thinks they do.”  Well that is only because you want to slow them down. They can move as fast as you want them to.  I can tell you that from a business.  I can drag it out all day long, or I can get it done.  His attitude because he is a billionaire and has done so much if he wants to get it done, just let him do it and get it over with.  This country is nothing more than a big business.  Just run it like one.  If people like me ran our business like the government we wouldn’t be here.  Why do we have to be paying the taxes to have them give it away to people who do nothing?  So I think Trump is doing a great job.  And I hope he makes the cut when it comes to the [reelection].  What I’d like to see is him run this term.  I hope he is extremely successful.  And I’d like to see him do it for another four years after that because he can make some major changes that can impact this country in a very positive way.

Peter: When I hear you talk about your mission trips and the values and your Christian faith, I see a big difference between you and Donald Trump.

Joe: This is very easy for me.  First of all, God has a perfect plan.  And as much as we try to circumvent it and try to say this guy (Trump) shouldn’t be there, God placed him there.  Because God placed him there there has got to be a reason why God wants him there.  Now how he got there from business I have no idea.  But when he spoke to that Christian group last week I thought it was phenomenal how they received him.  And when you see the comments afterwards, how he is impacting the Christian community in a positive way vs. what Obama was doing, I think it is dramatic.  And I think you can see it from the vote he got last time.  Are we perfect? No. Do we sin? Yes.  He’s got all kinds of problems.  But the key is that God put him there for a reason.

Joe: Trump has fresh ideas.  And they’re kicking them down all the time.  I hear his ideas and I think, “What a great idea! How do we do that?”  He’s putting the onus back on them, now.  I love the Iran deal: “Shut it down! You know what’s going to happen.”  If they get what they’re after then they are going to go after Israel. Then they’ll go after the US.  They’re going to combine with North Korea.  And they’re going to take down anyone they can. Shut them down now.  Why let it get that far?

Climate Change...And China’s Role

I ask Joe about his take on sea level rising and climate change.

Joe: I see that God is in control I see that if the temperature rises a little bit or comes down a little how much are you going to control if you are worried about climate change?  You talk about 1/10th of one degree over a period of time.  Is it really going to make a difference?  I don’t look at it as something I have to worry about.  I figure God has got it under control.  He’s going to reclaim the earth one day.  It's going to be burned down to nothing.  So at this point we are going to live with it.  We are going to do the best we can.  We’re going to take care of what we have.  But is it going to change the world by not watching this today and tomorrow?  I don’t think so. Look at the difference, look at China and India with what they are putting into the atmosphere.  They say they are going to be part of a global change?  Try to change the outcome of the weather so we can make it more suitable for the world?  At the same time that they are doing this they are putting more pollution in the air than we ever did between those two countries. How are you going to rectify that?  We’re going to be a country that doesn’t put any pollutants in the air and they are going to double their pollutants? How do you rectify that?

Peter: How do you think God sees that?

Joe:

Joe's image of China

I think God is looking down. He knows that humanity is down here. He’s given us the advantage of the technologies to clean up the air and the United States has done a great job at that.  I work in dust collectors.  So I know the things that have been done with dust collection [and soot remediation in factories and power plants]. And God is looking down at the people in China and how many of them follow that [dust collection]? Not a lot.  They’re putting more and more soot in the atmosphere every day.  How does God rectify it? That will be up to Him to decide. I don’t know.  But I know that this country has made major steps in clearing up our discharges. And [China’s] not making the steps.  No way; they’re not going to spend the money to do it.  Not at this point.  Have you watched the show on TV, I can’t remember the name.  But it shows the people walking down the main street in China and they all have face masks on. You can hardly see them.  So you’d think that would tell them something.

More on China

Later in our conversation we come back to China. I ask, “Have you done any of your mission trips in China?”

Joe: No.

Peter: Would you?

Joe: I was asked to go on a mission to Korea.  But then something happened with my mother-in-law.  But I would have went to Korea.  Would I have gone to China?  Wen Chen, my friend, asked if I’d go with him.  I said probably, but for no more than a week.

Peter: Why not China but the Dominican Republic or Panama?

Joe: I feel I’ve been drawn down to Central and South America. That is where the Lord has me working.  I know in China the underground church there is tremendous and expanding.  But I talk to my friends who are coming back and they say that as much as you want to do there, it is very difficult because the government is trying to watch everything that is going on and put a stop to it.  Whereas when you go down to Central and South America and the Dominican Republic, the schools are open, the churches are open, they are ready to receive and help us come in and help them share the Gospel. You go into Panama City ghettos and it is sad.  And yet, you take these kids out of there to these camps, and it makes a difference.  China, first of all, hates the United States. You can watch the people there.  Probably lots of the people love the United States.  Governments are always damning each other.  And I think going over there to try and make a difference -- because we have a completely different philosophy than they have -- would be very difficult.  At my age, I don’t think it is worth it.  I’m not going to fight in battles.

Washington Gridlock

Peter: When we look at Washington DC we see gridlock.  How would you like to see things in DC to move forward?

Joe:  How I’d like to see it and how it will happen are two different things.  When you get to the point when you’ve got a guy, McCain, stopping a vote; one vote that could put it over the top to at least give them a chance to get something rolling for the Republican Party?  Because he doesn’t think it is right; wants to get the Democrats involved.  Well you look at what Obama did.  It was all Democrats and he paid off half of the folks by giving their States a billion, billion-and-a-half dollars in goods of some kind.  I look at that and think that is the wrong way to do business. Bribery.

Peter: How should it be done?

Joe: I think it should be done by these people sitting down and using an open mind.  But you are not going to find that in Washington right now.  You’ve got an outsider now.

Peter: How would you get an open mind back into congress?  Do you think there were open minds at some point in Washington and thing have changed?

Joe: I haven’t been around that long. Just 45 years working on this.  But you had to have had more cooperation in the past.  [Number one], these guys don’t want the apple cart upset. And what he’s doing right now is upsetting the apple cart. When you’ve got people saying, “It's a good idea but I can’t vote for it.”  And they say “Why can’t you vote for it?” “Because I’m a Democrat.”  That’s what we’ve got right now.  These guys don’t want to cross the line.  The Republicans didn’t want to cross the line for Obama. [Number two] The other problem is the Republicans themselves don’t want to vote for stuff from Trump because it could change their position.  If it were me?  I’d set the maximum terms at maybe 3 terms.  That’s it.  After 3 terms you’re out.  “You guys have been in Washington so long you are trying to set the precedent so it is good for YOU, not the American people.”  Get out and GO FIND A JOB. And we're not going to support you the rest of your life!

Joe: You get the guys who come to the town halls.  There is so much structure you can’t even get a dialogue going.  Paul Ryan was at Roma Lodge (a banquet hall in Racine). You had to have a ticket, you had to be interviewed before you went to it.  Wait a minute.  Why not open it to the public?  If there are some people who agree with you, great.  But let's do it in talking instead of screaming.  And the thing about George Soros bringing in the outsiders to be hostile? That needs to be shut down. And it needs to be shut down by our government.  Free speech is great.  But you don’t pay these people and entice them and tell them to go create problems, because that is what they are doing.

Health care

We move to listening to Joe’s thoughts on how to provide healthcare to Americans.

Peter: How do you handle at your company?

Joe: Before we were bought out (Joe sold the company a couple of years ago but still runs it as an employee) my employees used to get a check every month, with which they could buy their health care.

Peter: Was it just cash?

Joe: Basically it was an amount that was designated to go against health insurance.

David: What if they didn’t use it for health insurance?

Joe: We don’t know that. All we had to do was designate it toward health insurance.  It was up to them…  We paid about 80% of a basic policy. [In addition] my guys every year at Christmas, they got nice bonuses. I mean they had enough at bonus time to buy a year’s worth of health insurance.  Now that we’ve been bought out, they go through Asperity.  It's about an 80:20 split.  They can get a Cadillac or a Volkswagen.

Peter: How should it work as a society?

Joe: First of all, I think that people who need health care need health care.  You have to take care of the public.  On the other hand, if they can work [people] shouldn’t have health care handed to them.

He continues with a proposal (see Work Ethic section above).

Peter: Are you on medicare?

Joe: yes.

Peter: How is that working for you?

Joe: I hate it.  I didn’t want to go on it.  I wanted to keep my own health insurance policy.

Dave: And you couldn’t?

Joe: No, they wouldn’t let me. There is no reason not to make healthcare affordable. They keep on trying to go with the single payer, which is nothing more than socialism in government.  Why do you want to do that?  Look at Canada (an example of socialized medicine).  The people from Canada come down here to have medical care.  Because they can’t get it, and get in a line up there. ..a guy going to the Caymans for heart surgery.

Peter: But you started that sentence by saying the cost could be lower. How?

Joe:  They’re letting more people come together to form groups.  You need to get that averaged out.  But you need a bigger group to get it to work.  I can’t think of the [name of the] Christian group that has medical care.  And they’ve got 1.6 million members. They were saying that if you go on their program you will save $5 or 600/month.  If they can save $5-600 why can’t our government create a policy that will save $1000 per month?  We’ve got all these brilliant people in Washington, who aren’t very brilliant who work half the time, and they themselves are looking for a handout, because they won’t take the same health care I get.  They’re going to get a much better health care plan. And who's paying for it?  You and me.  Why, if I am paying his policy, is he getting any better than me?  And that is why I think our government, from the top down, needs to be changed.  Is it going to happen?  Probably not, because these guys are in terms, they don’t ever have to change it.  This is supposed to be a government for and by the people.  It doesn’t turn out that way.

With this we say “Thank you” to Joe and let him get back to work.

--Peter