Tapas with an Evangelical Lawyer

Pastor Jerry set up several interviews with people in Racine for us.  One profession that I had requested was an attorney because I am a retired attorney myself.  I didn’t know what might come up, but thought it was a good idea.

Don (we’re trying to avoid ALL last names of interviewees in these posts)  is a family and criminal law attorney and is part of a practice based in downtown Racine, just down the block from Paul Ryan’s local office, across an empty lot from the Olympia Brown UU Church (See Post: Olympia Brown and the Laundromat) and a block from the county courthouse.  His time, this was a work day, was tight.  That morning the office had accepted an assignment to appear in Kenosha in the early afternoon on a guardianship matter.  We had to eat and talk quickly so that he could leave in time to make the appearance.  Considering the timing, he was amazingly calm and generous with his time and attention.  The four of us, Don, Pastor Jerry, Peter and I, ate at a “Tapas” place down the block, a Spanish restaurant that featured small plates that we shared family style.

Don from his website bio

Don’s Path to Racine

Don shared with us his background.  He went to university and law school in Milwaukee. After graduation he worked for a law office in Franklin, Wisconsin, a southwestern suburb of Milwaukee.  He lived in an apartment there, but the housing market prices were high, so when he wanted to buy a home he chose the more affordable Caledonia, just north of Racine, and now lives in Mt. Pleasant.

Don grew up all over the country as his father was in sales and marketing and moved a lot.  They primarily lived in Michigan and Pennsylvania.  Both of his parents grew up in Indiana; his dad served in Vietnam.  Peter inquired about religious upbringing.  Don’s father was agnostic and his mother was Catholic.  He went to “parochial schools” all the way through law school, attending Marquette in downtown Milwaukee, although he did not pick it “just because it had a Jesuit heritage.”

Catholic Churches were very different when he was growing up.  He was taught Revelation.  He explained to us that he understands that Catholic Churches in Wisconsin teach good works for salvation, rather than Revelation.  To Don, Salvation is by the grace of God, rather than accumulating good works through a lifetime.  “That (the grace of God) is what is in the bible.”  Peter asked what it is like to have an agnostic father.  Don responded, “at different times in my life it has meant different things.”  When he was young it meant that “dad got to stay home and play Atari and I had to go to church.”  At other times it led to discussion.  Even later it turned into “you told mom that you would do this when you got married, what happened?”  Then even later, after he got cancer and had a stroke, it led to even more discussion.  Don offered that his dad’s parents were agnostic or even atheist, so that is why his dad did not believe.  He understands, and perhaps this was due to serving in Vietnam, that his dad understood that there was a higher power.  But his dad was extremely introverted.  Even in high school “you just didn’t talk about those things with dad.”

Peter asked Don how, as a Catholic, graduating from Marquette law school, he ended up at Grace Church?  Don responded that for some reason he just stopped relating to the Catholic Church.  Then in 2008 his marriage broke up as his wife had cheated on him.  He continued to attend the Catholic Church, though it wasn’t doing much for him. So he started considering other churches.  Then he met the woman who is now his wife, who was attending Grace Church and the things he felt were lacking in the Catholic Church he found very easily at Grace Church.  He attends a different church now, but the same principles are there.

Good Works and the Role of Government

At this point our lunch arrived and Pastor Jerry led us in a blessing.  While we ate, Peter came back to discussing “good works.”  Don reflected on his career and doing good works.  Don said, “just because I say that good works are not enough to get you into heaven, it does not relieve you of the necessity to do good things, or your obligation to help those who are less fortunate.”  He informs us that he will always do some form of pro-bono (free or reduced rate) work to “give back.”  Peter asks why he does that.  Don responds that God gave him the ability, he just has an obligation to use it to help others. This is separate from tithing, or other financial obligations.

Tapas at Olde Madrid

Peter raised the issue of “where does the responsibility lie” to take care of people who can’t take care of themselves.  Is it the obligation of the Church, volunteers, government?  Don says that there is no simple answer.  Some States do it better than others.  Some States reach out to churches for help more than others.  “We could talk for hours, even going back to FDR about programs that were created and whether they should have been.”

Don continues:  “To me, forcing people to go to government to get things done is often wrong.  When States cut programs those are picked up by churches and private organizations and they are done far more efficiently, they are better and things get done more quickly.”  Peter asked if Don had seen any of these.  He replied that in Milwaukee, and particularly in Franklin he had.  Peter asked for an example.  Don responded:  “There was a need when an apartment complex had burned to the ground.  The mayor reached out to every single church leader and said that he would provide funds if the church leaders would take over delivery of services.”  Peter suggested in this instance that government was playing a coordinating role.  Don agreed “in this particular instance.”  Don also suggested that people sometimes need government, for example for unemployment compensation, but it should not go on for too long as it did a few years ago.  He also said:  “I don’t have a problem with Social Security, conceptually, but if I’m putting in money for my retirement I should get that.  I know that I disagree with both Democrats and Republicans on that one.”  He says that government itself has gotten too large.  Too much money goes into government employee salaries.

Don: “The areas that are getting cut are not going to fall by the wayside.  Individuals and other organizations will step up to provide care for people.  There will be some people who lose funding, but churches and others will fill in.”

Foxconn - a good, long term citizen

Peter raised the issue of Foxconn.  Don thinks that it is a great thing.  Incomes are projected and timelines for construction are projected to be quick.  They will be hiring locally.  Foxconn has proven to be, globally, a company that will be around.  They will have existing contracts that will keep them in place.  Peter asked if Don was surprised when Kenosha pulled out of bidding for Foxconn, and Don said he was.  Peter asked if there was anything that gave him pause about Foxconn.  Don could not see any downside.

His law firm has a referral agency that gives some insurance for attorneys paid through the Amazon (local distribution center) payroll.  He thinks that this is good for their firm, and thinks that Foxconn may do the same.  Don knows that Foxconn got some tax incentives from the State of Wisconsin, but “it’s not as if they will not pay any taxes.”

Wisconsin’s Truth in Sentencing Law

I asked about the Wisconsin “truth in sentencing law” as Don still does some Criminal Law.  We had heard that the new law, which does not allow for serving only partial sentences, had been applied retroactively, resulting in people who had been sentenced under the old law actually serving more time than anticipated at the time of sentence.  Don said that: “It’s not that new anymore; it has been in place since about 1998 or 1999.  Under the old law someone sentenced to thirty years in prison might be out in two.  The new law says that there are two components of a sentence.  The first would be an incarceration time and the balance will be on parole.  Now if a judge wants a person to serve two years the sentence will be for two; the judge doesn’t have to guess how much of the sentence will be served and increase it to be sure the defendant stays in for that time.  In a very few cases there is a mandatory minimum (unlike California which has mandatory sentences for many things) so the judges have a very large range of discretion.”  I asked about the sentences that were previously imposed and Don clarified that this is not a problem as the new law was not retroactive, statutorily.

The Environment and Climate Change

Peter next asked about the environment and climate change.  Don said that he is not completely decided one way or another.  He absolutely does not believe that legislation should be put in place.  He does not believe that global warming is dire, however he does feel that man contributes, simply because the population of the world is large.  He does think that there should be some laws; for example the supertanker law was a good idea, but laws should not be enacted willy-nilly.  He thinks that the public has an interest and businesses should be run in a clean way and adds that; the EPA should check on water pollution, for example. But when it comes to carbon regulation there is no consensus out there.”  He does not want this to become media bashing, but the media has presented one side more than they have the other.  He is not sure that global warming has been “proven scientifically.”

News Sources

 Peter asked how Don gets his news.  Don says that lately he has not been paying much attention to news, but he does go to College websites for environmental information.  He does not read a daily newspaper.  “News does not mean what it did in the days of Walter Cronkite.  Everyone has their own spin.”  So, considering that all news sites, liberal and conservative, have their own agenda he just does not follow it.

Peter asked Don if he can imagine a path forward for legitimate news.  Don says he wishes he could.  He thinks that if anyone wanted to present accurate and legitimate news they could make a killing; no one does now. 

Meeting the neighbor, Paul Ryan

Peter asked Don if he ever runs into Paul Ryan.  Don says that he does, though not often.  Ryan’s office is just down the street and Don has seen him five or six times. “One of the women who just came in here works in his office.”  One day Don recounts, he and Ryan were talking with the Johnsons (of Johnson’s Wax,).  “ I was just standing on the street corner talking with them; no security.  The conversation was mostly platitudes.” Peter asked if Ryan can help get us where we should be.  Don said “if you had asked me that five years ago I would have said sure, but now his party has the House, the Senate and now the Presidency and still nothing gets done.  I can’t say that all of that is on him, but he is in a leadership role, so to a certain extent it is.”

Peter asked the Magic Wand question; what would he change if there was only one change he could make, and he could make one:  “If I had to say for an immediate issue I would have had a candidate with real qualifications and no baggage run for President.  I did not see that from either side.  That’s not entirely true… but of the candidates that were out there I would have gone with Rubio or Bush.  Unfortunately Bush was un-electable because of his family name, but considering how he handled Florida; if he could have translated those things on a national level, I think that would have been great.”

Don continued:  “I didn’t like either of the final candidates.”  I asked:  “Who did you hold your nose and vote for?”  Don answered, almost before the question was finished:  “Trump.  In all honesty the biggest issue for me was Benghazi.  She knew what was going on.  She knew that she put people in harm’s way and then she lied about it.  She has a history, in my opinion, of not being forthcoming and flat out lying.  I think that her husband, in hindsight, was not as bad a President as the Right wants him to be, and not nearly as good as the Left wants him to be.”

Peter asked if Trump had any “Benghazis” and Don responded:  "Yes I think he does, In all honesty, but he never got any American forces killed due to his lackadaisical attitudes, and that was a big problem.”  He concludes that “If I could have gotten my head around not voting I wouldn’t have.  But I feel that I have an obligation.”

With that, the interview ended.  Don gave us just a little bit more time than he had available and was late for his court appearance.

-- David