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| Dave and me in the lobby, the Ten Commandments are over my left shoulder |
During the “breaking the ice” phase of our conversation Terry talks fishing. He has just returned from an annual trip to a lodge in Alaska with a group of men he knows well from around the country. I ask if he brought home any fish. “No, all catch and release.” he explains. He continues, “in many streams the fishes are exclusively catch and release.”
Terry’s Growing up
Paternal side
Both of Terry’s paternal grandparents immigrated as children from Luxembourg to a small town between Milwaukee and Sheboygan near Lake Michigan. Terry’s grandfather passed away when Terry’s father was only eight years old. Without him, the family (Terry’s father, his two sister and mother) “decided to sell the farm, it was too difficult to run it. What was once the farm has now been subdivided into the town of Fredonia.”
Terry then skipped ahead: “My dad ended up buying a trucking company. He started with one truck. This was at the time of WWII. He bought a second truck and hired a driver. Then he had an opportunity to buy a company. All it did was run from Southeastern Wisconsin to Southwestern Wisconsin.” There were no highways at the time. “That is where my dad met my mom in one of these towns in SW Wisconsin.
Terry’s dad eventually sold his trucking company to Schneider, the national carrier with bright orange trucks. And spent his mid career working for Consolidated Freightways (CF), at the time a public, dominant, trucking and logistics company. As a manager he was moved from Chicago to Minneapolis, to Rawlins, WY (Terry interjects, “I was born there (mom came back to [Wisconsin] to have me but we were living in Rawlins for one and a half years),” to Sheridan, WY “for a couple of years” then back to Minneapolis. But when CF wanted him to move back to Chicago but “My mom put her foot down.” Terry recalls her saying, “I’m not going to be yanking my kids out of school. And I don’t want to be living in Chicago.” So the family settled in the Milwaukee area.
Terry then skipped ahead: “My dad ended up buying a trucking company. He started with one truck. This was at the time of WWII. He bought a second truck and hired a driver. Then he had an opportunity to buy a company. All it did was run from Southeastern Wisconsin to Southwestern Wisconsin.” There were no highways at the time. “That is where my dad met my mom in one of these towns in SW Wisconsin.
Terry’s dad eventually sold his trucking company to Schneider, the national carrier with bright orange trucks. And spent his mid career working for Consolidated Freightways (CF), at the time a public, dominant, trucking and logistics company. As a manager he was moved from Chicago to Minneapolis, to Rawlins, WY (Terry interjects, “I was born there (mom came back to [Wisconsin] to have me but we were living in Rawlins for one and a half years),” to Sheridan, WY “for a couple of years” then back to Minneapolis. But when CF wanted him to move back to Chicago but “My mom put her foot down.” Terry recalls her saying, “I’m not going to be yanking my kids out of school. And I don’t want to be living in Chicago.” So the family settled in the Milwaukee area.
Maternal Side
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| Terry - Yes We Can! |
So we come to Terry’s Mom’s parents. He recounts that in the 1800’s, one set of great great grandparents emigrated from outside London, England and the other from Scotland. They were dairy farmers and settled in the southwestern part of Wisconsin.
I ask, “Why did they settle where they settled?”
Terry responds that he hasn’t studied it, but his father had explained it partially on ethnic reasons. “My paternal grandparents settled north of here because that is where other people from Luxembourg and Germany had settled. They had a common language. My grandmother spoke German. They were dairy farmers there [in Luxembourg] so they were dairy farmers here. My maternal family were dairy farmers, the more hilly country of southwest Wisconsin reminded them of England or Scotland.” He speculated that “sometimes they even had relatives who had preceded them. They followed the trail of their ancestors.”
Family of Boys
Terry was the oldest of four sons. He laughs and tells us “I grew up in a family of boys. I have [three] daughters. I have 7 grandchildren of which five of them are girls. The standing joke with my wife is that she says ‘You need a lot of loving. That is why the Lord gave you all of these girls in your life.’”
Peter: So, your brothers weren’t giving you enough love?
Terry: This kind of love. (Terry smiles and shows his clenched fist.) I’m the oldest so I ruled the house when mom and dad were gone. You know it is funny how certain things stick in your mind. I call them ‘defining moments’ in your life. I could probably have a tendency to get a little rough with [my youngest brother who is 12 years younger that Terry.] It’s my way or the highway. I remember one day putting him up against the wall because he wasn’t conducting himself the way that was acceptable. And I knew the minute I did it that that would be the last time in my life I would do it. Because he let me get away with it. Prior it was always because I was stronger, bigger. I knew that day that this must come to a stop because it is not acceptable.
David: Did you see the fear in his eyes?
Terry: It was probably more the fear of me reflecting in his eyes. Because I knew that he was strong and this was overboard. I’ve never done it again. I knew that day that this is the end of that journey. So that was a defining moment.
Peter: So, your brothers weren’t giving you enough love?
Terry: This kind of love. (Terry smiles and shows his clenched fist.) I’m the oldest so I ruled the house when mom and dad were gone. You know it is funny how certain things stick in your mind. I call them ‘defining moments’ in your life. I could probably have a tendency to get a little rough with [my youngest brother who is 12 years younger that Terry.] It’s my way or the highway. I remember one day putting him up against the wall because he wasn’t conducting himself the way that was acceptable. And I knew the minute I did it that that would be the last time in my life I would do it. Because he let me get away with it. Prior it was always because I was stronger, bigger. I knew that day that this must come to a stop because it is not acceptable.
David: Did you see the fear in his eyes?
Terry: It was probably more the fear of me reflecting in his eyes. Because I knew that he was strong and this was overboard. I’ve never done it again. I knew that day that this is the end of that journey. So that was a defining moment.
Special Load Trucking Business
Terry went to college. As a youth he learned the trade of engine and truck repair. One of his brothers and he started Transport National in 1972. Today his brother is is VP of Operations and has his office next to Terry’s. The company has grown from two used tractors (the cab unit that pulls) and four flatbed trailers. Terry recalls, “One tractor had a blown engine, but the other we got working.” By the early 80’s they had 100 pieces of equipment and today they have 8 terminals. Besides the Milwaukee HQ they have terminals in Ohio, Tennessee, Louisiana and Missouri.
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| Dave closing a deal for an oversized replacement for his RV |
The business specializes in hauling unusually large loads -- the type of “oversize load” trucks seen on the interstate highways. Dave and I recall to Terry how we saw a number of windmill blades being trucked west along Highway 80 in Nebraska. “We’re those your trucks?” I asked.
Giving us a window into the way he and his team runs the company he explains, “No, we had an opportunity a number of years ago to get into the wind tower business. It was a difficult decision because there was almost immediate gratification from getting involved. It exploded. We spend a lot of time dialoguing." They talked to their trailer vendors and key customers. But in the end they decided not to chase it. Instead they focused harder on their existing customers. “We figured that if [our competitors] weren’t focusing on their other customers there might be an opportunity."
Terry uses this anecdote as a segue to share the three “mantras we work at around here.”
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| Terry's Specialized Tractor Trailers in Action |
1. We don’t want to do business today the way we did it yesterday. They always want to look for continual improvement.
2. You have to be in the ball park to play the game. You have to be flexible with people. Don’t scare away potential clients or jobs by being too rigid.
3. Keep what you have. It’s much easier to hang onto something you have than to earn something new. This is what led them to decide not to chase windmills.
2. You have to be in the ball park to play the game. You have to be flexible with people. Don’t scare away potential clients or jobs by being too rigid.
3. Keep what you have. It’s much easier to hang onto something you have than to earn something new. This is what led them to decide not to chase windmills.
Religion
Growing up a (strict) Catholic
We ask Terry about the religious tradition of his childhood. He recounts, “My mom was raised Methodist. My dad was raised Catholic. My mother converted to Catholicism when or before they got married. Which was a traditional thing. I was raised in the Catholic Church, went to Catholic schools as did my brothers. My wife I’d consider more of an agnostic than a practicing Catholic. We called them “Christers” -- they just went to mass on Christmas and Easter.”
He then shares an anecdote. Before Terry married his wife she spent a summer out in Atascadero, California staying with her aunt and uncle. Her uncle was a Baptist minister. So during the summer she attended his Baptist church. Terry introduces his father as a “very staunch, traditional Catholic.” When he found out about Terry’s fiancee attending a Baptist church he viewed this as “sacrilegious. It was almost on the verge of heresy to think that you would marry someone who went to a Baptist church. He actually tried to stop our marriage. But he finally relented when the priest of our church said ‘let this go.’”
Terry then adds, “So my wife and I raised our kids in the Catholic church and they went to Catholic schools. Now my dad, he was a really, really great person. Nothing that I can say that would be out of character except that he was very stubborn and obstinate about certain things and one of them was about his Catholic faith. He was just unrelenting. Not very flexible. If you didn’t go to the Catholic church he was pretty sure you were going to end up in Hell. He died a long time ago. 35 years ago. I was only 27. Because that was the way he was raised. It wasn’t even about Jesus. It was just the Catholic church. If you weren’t [in the Catholic church] you weren’t on the train. You weren’t making it [to heaven].”
Terry then adds, “So my wife and I raised our kids in the Catholic church and they went to Catholic schools. Now my dad, he was a really, really great person. Nothing that I can say that would be out of character except that he was very stubborn and obstinate about certain things and one of them was about his Catholic faith. He was just unrelenting. Not very flexible. If you didn’t go to the Catholic church he was pretty sure you were going to end up in Hell. He died a long time ago. 35 years ago. I was only 27. Because that was the way he was raised. It wasn’t even about Jesus. It was just the Catholic church. If you weren’t [in the Catholic church] you weren’t on the train. You weren’t making it [to heaven].”
From Catholic to lapsed to Part of Jerry’s flock
Terry is now in full swing with the story, or testimonial to finding his current faith:
“We got married. My wife didn’t reject going to church. But she was raised in a family that just didn’t go every week. I was raised..., that is what you do on Sunday mornings, you go to church. We had a meeting of the minds in that area and raised our kids [in the] way of my upbringing. But [my wife and I] started having some struggles by the time we hit our mid 30’s. I think my own obstinacy, my own demands, my own desires started to manifest themselves in ways that were very harmful to our marriage. It got to a point where I started to focus on two things: I loved to fish, probably my biggest fault in life. Ever since I can remember. I used to have this whole wall [in my office covered with] pictures of me [fishing]. And my wife walked into my office one day and said, ‘When are you going to stop building this shrine to yourself?’ I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ She said, ‘Just look at this place, it’s all about you.’ And rather than looking about it from the point of view that ‘you are right.’ I resented it. The fuse was lit. I would spend a lot of time here at work. Sometimes an inordinate amount of time. Sometimes I’d hide from her here. I didn’t know how to deal with it. So I’d just stay at work. I stayed here one night on Christmas eve until 11 o’clock. And came home and there was nobody home. She had taken off [with our girls] to stay with her sister. She said, ‘If this is what you life is going to be like, it doesn’t include us and we’re done. We’re going to make some other arrangements.’ And my reaction was ‘Fine.’ I moved out of the house. My wife and I were separated for seven years. I lived in an apartment less than five minutes from the house. Because I wanted to be a part of the kids lives but I wanted it on my terms. I continued to fish. I continued to work. I’d stop by the house, my wife and I never even separated out bank accounts. We kept the same credit cards. Everything was co-mingled together we never even bothered separating it. We lived in separate homes.
Enter Pastor Jerry… Terry continues, “So my wife meets with Jerry though some type of life group for people who are struggling in their marriages. She said to me, ‘You really ought to…’ and I said, ‘He’s Baptist, I know who he is… He’s way over here. I’m Catholic, I’m way over here.’” Terry stretches his arms wide apart and continues, “She said, ‘You’re not a practicing Catholic, you haven’t gone to church in three or four years!’
“We got married. My wife didn’t reject going to church. But she was raised in a family that just didn’t go every week. I was raised..., that is what you do on Sunday mornings, you go to church. We had a meeting of the minds in that area and raised our kids [in the] way of my upbringing. But [my wife and I] started having some struggles by the time we hit our mid 30’s. I think my own obstinacy, my own demands, my own desires started to manifest themselves in ways that were very harmful to our marriage. It got to a point where I started to focus on two things: I loved to fish, probably my biggest fault in life. Ever since I can remember. I used to have this whole wall [in my office covered with] pictures of me [fishing]. And my wife walked into my office one day and said, ‘When are you going to stop building this shrine to yourself?’ I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ She said, ‘Just look at this place, it’s all about you.’ And rather than looking about it from the point of view that ‘you are right.’ I resented it. The fuse was lit. I would spend a lot of time here at work. Sometimes an inordinate amount of time. Sometimes I’d hide from her here. I didn’t know how to deal with it. So I’d just stay at work. I stayed here one night on Christmas eve until 11 o’clock. And came home and there was nobody home. She had taken off [with our girls] to stay with her sister. She said, ‘If this is what you life is going to be like, it doesn’t include us and we’re done. We’re going to make some other arrangements.’ And my reaction was ‘Fine.’ I moved out of the house. My wife and I were separated for seven years. I lived in an apartment less than five minutes from the house. Because I wanted to be a part of the kids lives but I wanted it on my terms. I continued to fish. I continued to work. I’d stop by the house, my wife and I never even separated out bank accounts. We kept the same credit cards. Everything was co-mingled together we never even bothered separating it. We lived in separate homes.
Enter Pastor Jerry… Terry continues, “So my wife meets with Jerry though some type of life group for people who are struggling in their marriages. She said to me, ‘You really ought to…’ and I said, ‘He’s Baptist, I know who he is… He’s way over here. I’m Catholic, I’m way over here.’” Terry stretches his arms wide apart and continues, “She said, ‘You’re not a practicing Catholic, you haven’t gone to church in three or four years!’
David remarks, “Now you are channeling you dad.”
Terry responds, “Yeah, I drew this line and I am not crossing it no matter what. She kept after me, ‘Why don’t you just go to his church.’ Not a chance. That is not going to happen. It wasn’t so much a fear of going to hell as a thing of, I’m not bending. I’m not yielding to this. And I’m certainly not going to give you a chance to try to change me. I am who I am. That went on.
The tug of the line
Terry: I just kept getting this tugging to go to his church once.
Peter: From you wife?
Terry: From my spirit, my mind, my heart, whatever. Something emotionally said to me “just go there.” There was part of me would tell you, I did it, so I could say I had, and it didn’t do anything for me. So can we get this off the table now? So I go to Jerry’s [Grace] church. I find that they have an earlier service and I think that is the one I’ll go to. And I’ll go early so I can get the back row, far left hand side, don’t have to talk to anyone, close to the exit. I go into the church and I find the seat and think this is for me. As soon as I walk out of the sanctuary into the common area there is a exit door. Bam! I can get out of here, I’m not going to have to shake hands with anyone, no one is going to know who I am, and I don’t have to know anybody here, and that is just fine with me. So I go in there. During the service someone’s up front preaching. And I think, who's this little guy up in front, here? My vision is not good from a distance...and I didn't have my glasses. Well it turns out this is the pastor. I don’t know who Jerry is, I’ve never seen Jerry in my life. I’ve just heard of him. I think, oh, this is the pastor. I wonder what pastor he is. He certainly is not the lead pastor. The lead pastor’s got to be 6’ tall, probably pumping iron on weekdays or something like that. And this little guy is talking away. And all of the sudden, about ¾ the way through I’m thinking, someone told him I am here. Everything he’s talking, he’s talking to me! Who told him… nobody knew but me. He’d sort of look my way [Terry mimes shading his eyes from the pulpit], Don’t be staring at me. I’d look down. I thought, as soon as they are done I am out of here. So finally the service ends and dust was flying, tiles were melting I was trying to get out of there so fast. Low and behold I walk out of that sanctuary and there are two guys out there that I know. Ahh, You’ve got to be kidding me. They say, “Terry, what are you doing here?”
“I don’t really know.”
“Wow, we’re really glad you are here.”
Peter: From you wife?
Terry: From my spirit, my mind, my heart, whatever. Something emotionally said to me “just go there.” There was part of me would tell you, I did it, so I could say I had, and it didn’t do anything for me. So can we get this off the table now? So I go to Jerry’s [Grace] church. I find that they have an earlier service and I think that is the one I’ll go to. And I’ll go early so I can get the back row, far left hand side, don’t have to talk to anyone, close to the exit. I go into the church and I find the seat and think this is for me. As soon as I walk out of the sanctuary into the common area there is a exit door. Bam! I can get out of here, I’m not going to have to shake hands with anyone, no one is going to know who I am, and I don’t have to know anybody here, and that is just fine with me. So I go in there. During the service someone’s up front preaching. And I think, who's this little guy up in front, here? My vision is not good from a distance...and I didn't have my glasses. Well it turns out this is the pastor. I don’t know who Jerry is, I’ve never seen Jerry in my life. I’ve just heard of him. I think, oh, this is the pastor. I wonder what pastor he is. He certainly is not the lead pastor. The lead pastor’s got to be 6’ tall, probably pumping iron on weekdays or something like that. And this little guy is talking away. And all of the sudden, about ¾ the way through I’m thinking, someone told him I am here. Everything he’s talking, he’s talking to me! Who told him… nobody knew but me. He’d sort of look my way [Terry mimes shading his eyes from the pulpit], Don’t be staring at me. I’d look down. I thought, as soon as they are done I am out of here. So finally the service ends and dust was flying, tiles were melting I was trying to get out of there so fast. Low and behold I walk out of that sanctuary and there are two guys out there that I know. Ahh, You’ve got to be kidding me. They say, “Terry, what are you doing here?”
“I don’t really know.”
“Wow, we’re really glad you are here.”
After short pleasantries they ask, “Well, are you going to come back?”
Terry relates: I think I’ve got this figured out: If I tell them “No,” they’re just going to handcuff me to the railing and preach to me. So I have to say “Yes.” I’m going to play the game. I’ve been in sales most of my life so I know how this works.
So I say, “Yeah, Yeah, I’ve been thinking about it. Next week I’m busy but maybe in a couple of weeks, you count on it, I’ll be back.”
As I’m leaving there, I’m thinking, ‘you just lied to those guys, because there is no chance you are coming back.’ Over the next months, however, “there was this gnawing at me. You’ve got to go back and find out what was going on there.”
As he attended intermittently Terry observed, “Something is different. I’m used to Catholicism, very ritualistic, on a strict itinerary -- you genuflect now, the sign of the cross, exactly 52 minutes you’ll be done and out of there. The rest of the week you live like the devil. I said, ‘It’s just really different. I’m still Catholic, though.’ She said, ‘You haven’t been to Catholic church in, (now we’re up to like) five years!'"
So I say, “Yeah, Yeah, I’ve been thinking about it. Next week I’m busy but maybe in a couple of weeks, you count on it, I’ll be back.”
As I’m leaving there, I’m thinking, ‘you just lied to those guys, because there is no chance you are coming back.’ Over the next months, however, “there was this gnawing at me. You’ve got to go back and find out what was going on there.”
As he attended intermittently Terry observed, “Something is different. I’m used to Catholicism, very ritualistic, on a strict itinerary -- you genuflect now, the sign of the cross, exactly 52 minutes you’ll be done and out of there. The rest of the week you live like the devil. I said, ‘It’s just really different. I’m still Catholic, though.’ She said, ‘You haven’t been to Catholic church in, (now we’re up to like) five years!'"
Setting the hook
Terry: So [my wife] comes home one day -- she and I are talking at the house we’re still separated -- she says, “Pastor Jerry wants to know if you want to go to a Promise Keepers meeting in Chicago with him.”
“It has just escalated.” Terry laughs, “I went into a net that had an electric fence around it.” Due to Jerry’s persistence, Terry attends the Chicago event. Although he insists on driving back home each night saying, “ I don’t want to stay in a hotel with 25 of Jerry’s followers.” But Terry looks back at that Promise Keepers weekend as another one of those defining moments. “There was something that these guys have that I don’t have. I’ve been looking for this all of my life. Part of my work has been looking for what they have. Part of my recreation has been looking for what they have. And all of it would bring it on momentarily but then it wouldn’t be sustained.”
“It has just escalated.” Terry laughs, “I went into a net that had an electric fence around it.” Due to Jerry’s persistence, Terry attends the Chicago event. Although he insists on driving back home each night saying, “ I don’t want to stay in a hotel with 25 of Jerry’s followers.” But Terry looks back at that Promise Keepers weekend as another one of those defining moments. “There was something that these guys have that I don’t have. I’ve been looking for this all of my life. Part of my work has been looking for what they have. Part of my recreation has been looking for what they have. And all of it would bring it on momentarily but then it wouldn’t be sustained.”
Catch a fish and you are happy. But 15 minutes later mess something up and now you are unhappy. Here at work, you have a good billing week and you're good. Then something goes wrong...just up and down. I was looking for something that was a little more stable in my life. These guys seemed to have that.
Landed
Despite a couple of false starts, after seven years of living in his own apartment Terry cancelled his lease and moved home with his family. Then one Sunday morning he got up and got dressed. He recalls the conversation:
My wife said, “Well where are you going?”
I said, “I’m going to church.”
She said, “Where are you going to church?”
I said, “I’m going with you guys.”
I said, “I’m going to church.”
She said, “Where are you going to church?”
I said, “I’m going with you guys.”
Well, you talk about people being floored -- my daughters were floored, my wife was floored: “You’re going to church with us?”
“Yup, I’m going to church with you.”
We walked in there and I’m really uncomfortable. I’m looking for some comfort zone. All of the sudden I see a woman that I recognize that I know very well. And she is sitting there with her husband. [This is] my brother-in-law’s ex wife. But she is with her new husband. And I say to my wife, “If she can be in this building and the roof does not come down, then it is safe for me to be in this building.”
Men’s Bible Study
Although Terry was reluctant and put off invitations for several months, eventually he joined a men’s bible study group which met every Tuesday evening.
That [men’s Bible study] grew to 75 guys every Tuesday. Last time we met in a barn. We met in there. We were encouraged to take the group and split into smaller groups. [It became a] very influential group [at Grace].
That [men’s Bible study] grew to 75 guys every Tuesday. Last time we met in a barn. We met in there. We were encouraged to take the group and split into smaller groups. [It became a] very influential group [at Grace].
Might there have been another path back to your family reunion?
Peter: Now you look back on that. Do you think there was another path? Or was this that one path/ coincidence that was going to get you back [with your family?]
Terry: Good question. I had been through a lot of counseling, marriage counseling. A lot of the rigidity and “My way or the highway” came up [in those sessions.] But you have to have the desire to change. It isn’t someone telling you. It is not going to happen. If it is not here [Terry points to his heart] you won't change. I didn’t want to go home. I got so adept a fooling the counselors that they thought they had me healed. You are getting really good at this. I was faking it. Playing the game. If I play the game well enough they say, “You're cured you don’t have to come again.” I went to clinics, Chicago, here. Just a game. [Finally] I didn’t want to play the game any more.
Gratification Vs. Contentment
Terry: I think that there may be other ways [to find gratification]. I tried fishing, automobile racing, work...to separate myself from my wife. Nothing brought true contentment. There is a difference between being gratified and being content. A lot of things bring gratification. Work. But tomorrow is a new day. It wasn’t until I began getting involved in a relationship with the Lord that I began to see the same events happen in life [with new eyes]. I’ve had days in here where people come in here and say “I don’t know how you stand it!” I say, “What do you want me to do? Throw a hammer through the wall? If I thought that was going to fix things I’d be the first in line. Give me the hammer so I can throw it. You want me to scream and holler? I can scream and holler with the best of ‘em. Come on, we’ll get everyone out in the yard screaming and yelling.” I’d been to Catholic School, I could say the mass in Latin and English. I wouldn’t say I was a Bible reader. But something was going on.
I still have the same struggles. But I’m not as rigid or violent about things. I went home one day -- this is when were still living together -- and I almost flipped the table upside down because the meal wasn’t the way I wanted it. And this was a growing problem for me. It was anger. It started to show itself in larger degrees but it was also faster to manifest itself. It wasn’t a case of “I can deal with it,” it was bam! “You want me to flip the table over? I’ll flip the table over.”
[My wife] said, “You didn’t come home ‘til 9 o'clock at night and you didn’t tell anyone and the food has been sitting…”
“That’s not my problem. That is your problem. Your problem is that you are my wife.”
See, I lived under a really old fashioned system where ‘barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.’ That is basically -- that is a cliche -- but that is basically the way I lived. I wouldn't say that, but that is the way I was living. When I started going to Jerry’s church and started going to the men’s groups and started studying the the scripture I started realizing there was a real transformation taking place in me. It wasn’t a case of someone forcing it on me. Instead of avoiding and building walls around me to deflect now I’m starting to embrace this. This stuff is TRUE. Everything else was like theories. Jerry was a really influential person in my life. And he never forced himself on me. That was one of my fears. This guy is going to be fire and brimstone preacher. I was scared enough when I was a kid of what was going to happen to me. I didn’t need it as a 35, 40 year-old adult. But Jerry’s church never was that way.
I still have the same struggles. But I’m not as rigid or violent about things. I went home one day -- this is when were still living together -- and I almost flipped the table upside down because the meal wasn’t the way I wanted it. And this was a growing problem for me. It was anger. It started to show itself in larger degrees but it was also faster to manifest itself. It wasn’t a case of “I can deal with it,” it was bam! “You want me to flip the table over? I’ll flip the table over.”
[My wife] said, “You didn’t come home ‘til 9 o'clock at night and you didn’t tell anyone and the food has been sitting…”
“That’s not my problem. That is your problem. Your problem is that you are my wife.”
See, I lived under a really old fashioned system where ‘barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.’ That is basically -- that is a cliche -- but that is basically the way I lived. I wouldn't say that, but that is the way I was living. When I started going to Jerry’s church and started going to the men’s groups and started studying the the scripture I started realizing there was a real transformation taking place in me. It wasn’t a case of someone forcing it on me. Instead of avoiding and building walls around me to deflect now I’m starting to embrace this. This stuff is TRUE. Everything else was like theories. Jerry was a really influential person in my life. And he never forced himself on me. That was one of my fears. This guy is going to be fire and brimstone preacher. I was scared enough when I was a kid of what was going to happen to me. I didn’t need it as a 35, 40 year-old adult. But Jerry’s church never was that way.
Judging and Being Judged by others
Terry: It's not that they don’t exist; there are judgmental people. I’ve been part of the church for over 20 years. You learn after awhile that everyone is in a different place in their journey. I may still let some course language out once in awhile. Now I say [to myself] “Why did I do that, I don’t want to do that anymore.” I used to get judgmental about people. Younger people. I don’t mean chronological I mean spiritual. “You’ve got to get this.” “You’ve got to make the change.” “Do you want to live at the end of a bottle the rest of your life?” One day the Lord woke me up and said, “This is not the way it is. You want to be all truth. How about introducing grace as well. Be more compassionate. More understanding.” That was a real eye opener. I realized I really like people. I want the best for all people. Judgment is not the way.
Lay Leadership at Grace Church
Peter: When did you become an Elder? (The Board of Elders leads Grace Church)Terry: Probably about 10 years ago. I’d been there 10 years.
Peter: Who are the Elders?
Terry: There are a lot of characteristics that come into play. Most was observation vs. words. You can come in here and I can say I’m a great guy I don’t do this or that. “I’m a really honest guy”. Then you see me (Terry’s gives a hypothetical example of unethical behavior) and I get a different impression. What does that do about my first impression of you? It wipes the slate clean.
What I saw [in the Elders] was the words were backed by the actions. [They were] not an obscure group. They would come down to the front. Always offering an invitation. [Asking] Any questions you want to know more about it? Do you have prayer needs? They were visible. This was really critical. I hear the preaching but I saw the action...walk the walk. Pastor Jerry, he lived what he preached. It seemed never to waver.
Growing into Church Leadership
During my separation I had a drinking problem. I would never ever say I had a drinking problem. But would I ever say I abused alcohol? Absolutely. There was a day when I could open this drawer right here, it was there when I needed it. That was about 10 in the morning.
David: That’s a sign [of a drinking problem.]
Terry: Not to me. I had it "under control."
P: how to become an Elder?
Terry: I was involved in the men’s group. Then other ministries in the church. Bible study classes. Sundays at church. I’m the kind of person that when I make a commitment I really go deep. One Sunday Tony [an impressive church member to Terry] came up to me - he said, “You really need to be a teacher.”
I said, “I love to learn. I have no interest in teaching.”
Tony said, “This is not about your interests. This about what you are gifted to do. You need to step up to the plate. You can teach this class.”
I said, “I’m not where you’re at.”
He said, “I wasn’t there either at one time. You can do this. In fact I’m going to be gone in three weeks, and you are going to be teacher.”
This is the invisible rope that keep drawing me in. So I got involved and then with facilitating classes. Then I got to be the head of the Prayer Ministry Team -- not as an Elder, as a lay person. The first Wednesday of every month we’d have a prayer meeting. I wouldn’t schedule any travel the first Wednesday of every month. I loved being there --- for a couple of reasons. I loved being with the people. You found opportunities to minister with people who were suffering through similar struggles.
By way of illustration, Terry shares a story. One evening his wife and he are leaving the sanctuary after a Prayer meeting and he sees a middle aged man who is lying on the floor in front of one of the back pews. He knows there is something wrong. The “guy is crying. He’s in pain.” They man has been drinking, and recently, Terry adds. It turns out the man has family and work struggles. Terry recalls the man saying to him, “You wouldn’t understand.” Terry responded, “I’ll tell you where I’ve been separated from my wife for seven years. I abused alcohol every day for five years. People didn't like me, and to be honest I didn’t like people. I don’t KNOW what you are going through but believe me, I can relate.” Recalling and telling this anecdote has Terry choked up. Terry finishes by telling us the man had gotten his life back on track. “He’s served as a usher. He was very visible. All of the sudden you see a guy who looked like he was 50, now reverts back to the 38 year-old he was.”
Terry: Not to me. I had it "under control."
P: how to become an Elder?
Terry: I was involved in the men’s group. Then other ministries in the church. Bible study classes. Sundays at church. I’m the kind of person that when I make a commitment I really go deep. One Sunday Tony [an impressive church member to Terry] came up to me - he said, “You really need to be a teacher.”
I said, “I love to learn. I have no interest in teaching.”
Tony said, “This is not about your interests. This about what you are gifted to do. You need to step up to the plate. You can teach this class.”
I said, “I’m not where you’re at.”
He said, “I wasn’t there either at one time. You can do this. In fact I’m going to be gone in three weeks, and you are going to be teacher.”
This is the invisible rope that keep drawing me in. So I got involved and then with facilitating classes. Then I got to be the head of the Prayer Ministry Team -- not as an Elder, as a lay person. The first Wednesday of every month we’d have a prayer meeting. I wouldn’t schedule any travel the first Wednesday of every month. I loved being there --- for a couple of reasons. I loved being with the people. You found opportunities to minister with people who were suffering through similar struggles.
By way of illustration, Terry shares a story. One evening his wife and he are leaving the sanctuary after a Prayer meeting and he sees a middle aged man who is lying on the floor in front of one of the back pews. He knows there is something wrong. The “guy is crying. He’s in pain.” They man has been drinking, and recently, Terry adds. It turns out the man has family and work struggles. Terry recalls the man saying to him, “You wouldn’t understand.” Terry responded, “I’ll tell you where I’ve been separated from my wife for seven years. I abused alcohol every day for five years. People didn't like me, and to be honest I didn’t like people. I don’t KNOW what you are going through but believe me, I can relate.” Recalling and telling this anecdote has Terry choked up. Terry finishes by telling us the man had gotten his life back on track. “He’s served as a usher. He was very visible. All of the sudden you see a guy who looked like he was 50, now reverts back to the 38 year-old he was.”
The Weekly Prayer Meeting
Peter: Tells us more about the prayer meeting.Terry: At that time Grace church probably had a weekly attendance of 1200 - 1300. On a Wednesday night maybe 60 people would show up. At one point when I was in charge we had 150 people show up. If you see one person’s life turned around to that degree, it is always worthwhile.
How to Become a Church Elder
Terry explains that there are about twelve Elders, but the number can vary. No more than third of the Elders are pastors. And pastors are permanent members, no term limits. But everyone else serves a three year term and then must rotate off for at least one year. So about ⅓ of the lay elders rotate off each year. “Being an Elder is very demanding of your time. You need to refresh and rejuvenate after your term.”
He continues, “At Grace Church that Elders are ‘recognized.’” Terry then tells story of someone who was being a “candidate” to become an Elder and started sitting in the front pew and dressing up. Terry believes that being recognized is about displaying character and discipline.
Dave asks, “Is there a vote?”
Terry answers that the Elders get 20 or 25 candidates for three slots. Then they spend “several weeks to pray over this.” Terry continues, “Who does the Lord want --not what I want, I’d just vote for my friend -- to be considered for Eldership.” Then the Elders discuss “where do you see this person.” They might agree a person is not ready “right now” but they should be considered again in future years. In this process they narrow down to six or seven and then vote.
He continues, “At Grace Church that Elders are ‘recognized.’” Terry then tells story of someone who was being a “candidate” to become an Elder and started sitting in the front pew and dressing up. Terry believes that being recognized is about displaying character and discipline.
Dave asks, “Is there a vote?”
Terry answers that the Elders get 20 or 25 candidates for three slots. Then they spend “several weeks to pray over this.” Terry continues, “Who does the Lord want --not what I want, I’d just vote for my friend -- to be considered for Eldership.” Then the Elders discuss “where do you see this person.” They might agree a person is not ready “right now” but they should be considered again in future years. In this process they narrow down to six or seven and then vote.
Why At Grace only Men can be Elders
Dave and I ask if it is a requirement that only men can be Elders.
Terry: That is a Grace Church policy that they had to be all men.
Peter: Is that coming from the Gospel?
Terry: There are passages that people understand that leadership roles are to be taken by a man and they expand that to include leadership of the Church. It doesn’t mean that men are better than women. That was made abundantly clear to everyone on the Elder Council -- this is not about a woman being disqualified. This is about a man stepping up and being responsible. Because the standard -- my daughter Tiffany, went to UW Madison, a very liberal place. I asked her, “Are you ready to handle Madison?” She said, “Dad, I can handle it.” I had another daughter who when to Marquette, a Jesuit school. I had another daughter who said “I can’t handle it, I want a smaller school.” So she went up to De Pere (outside Green Bay) a smaller school in northern Wisconsin with 5000 - 6000 students.
There are people who say Christians make women subservient and slaves to their husbands. (Terry simulates a conversation with these people).
“Well where do you get that?”
“Oh, I read a passage somewhere. Right here.”
Well you can’t pick one passage from the 66 books. You have to take the full counsel of the Bible. What you conclude with is that the husband is to treat his wife the same way Christ treated his disciples. He died for the church. Yes, a wife is to be submissive. But you as the leader of your home must be ready to lay your life on the line for your spouse. That is a pretty high standard. So you can’t just say that this is what the Bible says about women. If you gave me the opportunity to flip flop the role maybe I would. But it is a life struggle. It is hard for a wife to want to be submissive. And it is hard for a man not to want his wife to be submissive. But it is equally difficult for a man to say “I’m going to die for my kids.” As an Elder of the church it says you are going to be held accountable and responsible in your decision making for all of the souls that are in that church. That is a very high standard and Jerry made that abundantly clear. This is not guys coming in here...this is not a country club with guys coming in here .. I’m not responsible for the other members of the country club, I’m just responsible for myself. This was about people’s souls. And when you start talking about people's’ souls you are into a different thing than bills being paid on time, all the discounts that are available to us, is the lawn getting taken care of?
We shift gears, now to ask Terry about some specific, national topics. We start with health care.
Terry: That is a Grace Church policy that they had to be all men.
Peter: Is that coming from the Gospel?
Terry: There are passages that people understand that leadership roles are to be taken by a man and they expand that to include leadership of the Church. It doesn’t mean that men are better than women. That was made abundantly clear to everyone on the Elder Council -- this is not about a woman being disqualified. This is about a man stepping up and being responsible. Because the standard -- my daughter Tiffany, went to UW Madison, a very liberal place. I asked her, “Are you ready to handle Madison?” She said, “Dad, I can handle it.” I had another daughter who when to Marquette, a Jesuit school. I had another daughter who said “I can’t handle it, I want a smaller school.” So she went up to De Pere (outside Green Bay) a smaller school in northern Wisconsin with 5000 - 6000 students.
There are people who say Christians make women subservient and slaves to their husbands. (Terry simulates a conversation with these people).
“Well where do you get that?”
“Oh, I read a passage somewhere. Right here.”
Well you can’t pick one passage from the 66 books. You have to take the full counsel of the Bible. What you conclude with is that the husband is to treat his wife the same way Christ treated his disciples. He died for the church. Yes, a wife is to be submissive. But you as the leader of your home must be ready to lay your life on the line for your spouse. That is a pretty high standard. So you can’t just say that this is what the Bible says about women. If you gave me the opportunity to flip flop the role maybe I would. But it is a life struggle. It is hard for a wife to want to be submissive. And it is hard for a man not to want his wife to be submissive. But it is equally difficult for a man to say “I’m going to die for my kids.” As an Elder of the church it says you are going to be held accountable and responsible in your decision making for all of the souls that are in that church. That is a very high standard and Jerry made that abundantly clear. This is not guys coming in here...this is not a country club with guys coming in here .. I’m not responsible for the other members of the country club, I’m just responsible for myself. This was about people’s souls. And when you start talking about people's’ souls you are into a different thing than bills being paid on time, all the discounts that are available to us, is the lawn getting taken care of?
We shift gears, now to ask Terry about some specific, national topics. We start with health care.
Health care:
Terry (speaking about his company): I have different opinions on things like health care than a lot of people. I won’t go to the point that I agree with the way the health care program is run but I will tell you that as a practicing, believing christian that you have a responsibility to the people you bring on [into your company]. [Some employees] don’t want to be in a leadership role. They just want to come to work and they want to provide for their families and hope that there is a little left over at the end of the week, that it isn’t paycheck to paycheck. And that [sense of responsibility] is not always true in the business community. The business community can be rather ruthless at times. The thing that we have done here -- it would be good for you to ask people here -- we have had health care here, very good health care, long before it ever became the ACA. We’ve had health care here since when I was 27 years old. And I’m 66 in January. So you're talking 40 years ago we started health care. We have a very competitive package for our people.
Employee Benefits
Terry: Our vacation schedule is accelerated. You get two weeks after one year. We do not keep drivers out three weeks at a time, like a lot of companies will. We load them out then bring them back. We ideally want them home every weekend. I think we average [the driver being home] about 47 weekends per year. We will fly them home at Thanksgiving and Christmas. We can tell them, “Relax, we’ll get you home.” We try to get everyone home for the rest of the holidays, but we won’t fly you home.Peter: How many employees do you have?
Terry: About 150.
Peter: Do you have contractors?
Terry: We use contractor drivers for peak load requirements. For example, often on Mondays they need extra pilot cars and pilot car drivers. So they have a “a lady in the back who coordinates pilot cars and permits. We’ll use ours first choice but peak with others, maximizing the utilization of assets.”
Dave: Do you pay hourly or by the mile?
Terry: Local guys by the hour. Our intercity guys are all percentage. We guarantee every driver $1000 per week. That’s good for our part of the world. Our average driver is somewhere between $75 and 80k/ year. Medical,, 401k, vacation, six personal days per year. So we have a good package.
Dave: Do you keep drivers for a long time?
Terry: If we keep them for 3-4 years typically it is not a problem. The first 3-4 years is tough [because of the type of demanding work. Terry’s trucks can’t drive at night, bad weather, weekends. So his drivers have to get used to this work arrangement.]
Union vs. Non-Union
Terry explains, “We are not union. We pay equal to or better than union scale. Because we want to be more flexible on work. Sometimes my mechanic needs to be able to work a forklift or I need to pull them out of the shop to drive the truck to do local pickup and delivery. If I was a union shop I couldn’t do that.
Regulations, Unions and Employees
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| Terry's mechanics shop - servicing the diesel tractors |
Terry reflects that he thinks the trucking industry was much more regulated when he started in ‘72 than today. For one thing I think there were restrictions on routes -- most trucking companies were forced by regulations to be local or at most regional.
Terry says, “Your state [CA] is most difficult -- tip of the spear. Clean diesel sticker, special aerodynamics you have to have in place. If you are going to go to California you may as well put it on.” Terry has Conestoga trailers and he has permanently installed the side skirts. “We do go out to California every week. If you are legal there, you’re legal everywhere.”
Frustration with Worker’s Comp Claims
Terry turns to the NLRB (labor relations), “Some [of its regulations] can be burdensome … I want to be careful. There are conditions when you know the employee is fraudulent in workers comp. Very heavily favored for employee. I resent being viewed as an evil employer.”
Government Ineptness
Terry takes a turn in the conversation.
Terry: A year ago I was asked, what are your biggest concerns with Government. And I’m going to use the term ineptness. My son-in-law's father has been involved in government all of this life, he is the head of the Department of Corrections for the State of Wisconsin. He used to be very involved in the State’s side of the public service employees. How much money do you think that State of Wisconsin spends on the mental health of its employees? 60% of the expense! I said, “How can that be?”
Well he started to explain it…
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| Interfacing with the Government - Permits for this type of transport |
Terry: We deal with the State of Wisconsin every day. We do not think that there is a spirit of cooperation between carriers and the State. They are making progress. Better today than 10 years ago. We have to perform to a certain level for our customers or they go to another carrier. We have to satisfy our customers by performance. [The Department] does it by legislation. Why does it take three days to get a permit to run a route that we run all of the time?
P: What is the trend line?
T: I would have to say that they are beginning to see the problem and it is getting a little better. Not where I need it to be.
P: What is the trend line?
T: I would have to say that they are beginning to see the problem and it is getting a little better. Not where I need it to be.
Later we meet Terry’s “permits and Pilot Cars” woman. Terry ask her the same question. She answers enthusiastically that the State Departments have become very easy to work with in the past few years.
Political Divisions in Wisconsin
Terry: There is definitely a swing in the pendulum. I’m not going to say this is a conservative state. But the pendulum has swung from a little -- I don’t even like using the word -- liberal -- this is a state that predominantly been a Democratic [party] state. We were the first State in the Union to have workman's comp. I think if you check, it’s been a very progressive state in implementing social programs. I’ve been told, I never did the research, but I’ve been told partly from my dad that it was the ethnic groups that settled here, heavily German. They already had social programs in Germany before they even ...so they brought some of those ideas with them.
Enter Scott Walker - Republican and Democratic Divides
Terry: The Scott Walker election was a defining moment. I happen to be a supporter of Scott Walker. I’m not a $100,000 per year supporter, I will go to an event. I was talking to a friend in Washington DC who says this: I don’t worship politicians. By nature I have a suspicion of all of them, I don’t care what animal they put behind their names. The divide in the State of Wisconsin exists between Dane County (around Madison) and Milwaukee County -- those two go against the rest of the state. Racine you might you put in, but it is swinging. It was a major Democratic stronghold historically. But more people are living on the western side of country. And they tend to vote more Republican. We have a summer cabin in Waukesha county (west of Milwaukee). It will vote between 75 - 80% Republican. Milwaukee itself is just the opposite, it is probably 80-90 % democrat.
Factories Close or Move South...
Terry: You go back to when I was a kid. This was a heavily industrialized area. You had very good living standards. Very proud people. I was proud to tell people that I lived in Milwaukee.
[They’d say,] “Oh wow, I heard that is a really nice community.”
“Yeah, its great.”
Most of the people who lived in the homes could walk to the places where they worked. That started to change -- things I heard my dad talk about -- in the 60’s. Industry started to leave here to go to Oklahoma, to go to the Carolinas, Georgia. They were leaving to get away from what was determined to be high labor costs that were driven because of the heavily union area we were in. So they left. Well that caused a decline in certain things. You take one factory A.O. Smith (Electric motor and component manufacturer) that had 10,000 employees in one factory in Milwaukee. You take that out of the city? What do you think the immediate impact is on the area? It goes down the tubes. My brother graduated from high school and went to work for Allis-Chalmers. 14,000 employees. Well they went broke. But they closed the whole plant up. You got 14,000 and probably another 50,000 who are indirectly affected by the closing. I could go on, and on, and on about plants that moved to other parts of the country.
“Yeah, its great.”
Most of the people who lived in the homes could walk to the places where they worked. That started to change -- things I heard my dad talk about -- in the 60’s. Industry started to leave here to go to Oklahoma, to go to the Carolinas, Georgia. They were leaving to get away from what was determined to be high labor costs that were driven because of the heavily union area we were in. So they left. Well that caused a decline in certain things. You take one factory A.O. Smith (Electric motor and component manufacturer) that had 10,000 employees in one factory in Milwaukee. You take that out of the city? What do you think the immediate impact is on the area? It goes down the tubes. My brother graduated from high school and went to work for Allis-Chalmers. 14,000 employees. Well they went broke. But they closed the whole plant up. You got 14,000 and probably another 50,000 who are indirectly affected by the closing. I could go on, and on, and on about plants that moved to other parts of the country.
But the Government Keeps Growing!
The other part -- the government side -- didn’t change with it. They started to expand government, expenditures continued to grow. I think what really brought the swing that you are eluding to in the political climate, [was that] the public service employees had extremely generous benefits. People began to see that we [private company employees] are making the same hourly wage [as public employees] but [the public employee] benefits package was enormously expensive. One of the big rubs was that the teachers union negotiated with the state the health care benefits. It had to go through a group that was a monopolistic system, it was run by the teachers union. When people started hearing that it is costing 2 - 3 times as much to buy the insurance through this group as it is costing as if you bought it through UnitedHealthcare. Where is the justice in this? So people started to get political. If this is only costing x but you are being charged 2x where is the extra x going? And it was going into political campaigns. Funding this politician and this politician. I think people started saying, “Enough is enough.” And this is where Scott Walker came in and said, “I’m going to change this.” It was a real bru-ha-ha. And that was a very contentious several months around here. It got to the point where they were holding the capital hostage. You know when people think that their backs are against the wall they start doing things that they shouldn’t be doing. You had doctors who were writing false medical reports so teachers could say, “I was sick.” Well really they were out protesting, “We got you right on camera.” Walker won the recall by more votes than the original election. That tells you that people wanted this corrected. Not eliminated but brought back into balance with everyone else who is in the state.
Peter: Are you feeling that the balance is getting reset?
Terry: I’m very comfortable with the State of Wisconsin right now. I’ve never been one who says that I want out of this State. We have a history of being a very high tax state. But I think that has been brought into line with the Walker Administration. We were one of the top 5 tax states in the country. New York, California, Connecticut, Illinois...we were always right in that category. You look at that and you go, “Man!”
Peter: Are you feeling that the balance is getting reset?
Terry: I’m very comfortable with the State of Wisconsin right now. I’ve never been one who says that I want out of this State. We have a history of being a very high tax state. But I think that has been brought into line with the Walker Administration. We were one of the top 5 tax states in the country. New York, California, Connecticut, Illinois...we were always right in that category. You look at that and you go, “Man!”
Road Maintenance
Dave asks, “How about road construction and maintenance?” We had heard earlier on our Tour about deferred maintenance, and figured Terry would know.
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| Minneapolis 35-W Bridge Collapse |
Terry: I think that there is room to have more highway maintenance to be done. I think we have problem. Why we do that is driven financially. If you are going to build new bridges you are going to spend money. And the minute you spend money you are going to raise taxes. The default mode is, “No.” Not to try to find an answer but to say, “No.” I think that we have a number of situations like the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis (Terry is referring to the 2007 Highway 35-W bridge incident), not imminent but potential. I believe that could happen in the next 4 - 5 years. The interstate highway system was designed to last 30-40 years. And I think in many cases we are pushing 50 or 60. And it is [still] the original bridges. Look at the piers that are supporting the bridge right here in Oakridge. Concrete missing, rebar exposed - highly rusted, exposed to salt and chemicals.
Peter: that presents a tension -- less taxes, smaller government , but on the other hand we need infrastructure work.
Terry: I don’t like the idea of privately managed highway systems. And I’m not a big government advocate that the government should solve every single problem that arises, but I do believe there are certain things that the government is best suited to manage and highways is one of them.
Peter: that presents a tension -- less taxes, smaller government , but on the other hand we need infrastructure work.
Terry: I don’t like the idea of privately managed highway systems. And I’m not a big government advocate that the government should solve every single problem that arises, but I do believe there are certain things that the government is best suited to manage and highways is one of them.
Wish - Resolve Divisiveness:
Before taking a tour of Terry’s facility, we ask our “wish” question. If you could change one thing to make things better, what would it be?
Terry: My change I’d like to see: I am very concerned about the level of divisiveness in our country. I have to say it is not like anything I have ever seen. I was brought up in the Vietnam era, and it was pretty divisive. But the disagreement was: “Should we fight a war,” or “Should we not fight a war.” Our disagreements [today] are so broad scope. You could walk into a group of people and you could find anything to disagree about. Where is the civility. I can hardly watch TV anymore. I used to watch when I was a kid and in college the morning political talks shows. I didn’t always agree with them. But it was civilized discourse. And we have become so uncivilized. I wish I could have people conduct themselves with more civility recognizing that we have differences but you are not my enemy and I shouldn’t be yours. We might disagree on how to get somewhere...but there are 100 ways to get to Chicago. But that is what we’ve got to.
David: What is the path forward?
Terry: This will take me to a place where many people will disagree. This takes me back to some of our earlier conversation. I truly believe that the further the country distances itself from practicing Biblical principals that it is never going to change. You have to change people’s hearts. To get them to change. There are good people who care about some of this stuff and they’ll start a fight. There is something about the Lord. Do I practice 100%? I try to. I don’t hit it all the time. But I try to and I have remorse when I don’t hit it. And it is not just about me or my wife and kids. It is about how I conduct myself with the people around here. I leave this (Terry points to the Bible on the desk in front of us) on display not as a show, but to hold me accountable. Do they [my employees] see me reading this on a daily basis? They may say, “Oh sure, the devil reads it. The devil knows it, he just doesn’t believe in it, doesn’t practice it.” So it holds me accountable.
Terry: My change I’d like to see: I am very concerned about the level of divisiveness in our country. I have to say it is not like anything I have ever seen. I was brought up in the Vietnam era, and it was pretty divisive. But the disagreement was: “Should we fight a war,” or “Should we not fight a war.” Our disagreements [today] are so broad scope. You could walk into a group of people and you could find anything to disagree about. Where is the civility. I can hardly watch TV anymore. I used to watch when I was a kid and in college the morning political talks shows. I didn’t always agree with them. But it was civilized discourse. And we have become so uncivilized. I wish I could have people conduct themselves with more civility recognizing that we have differences but you are not my enemy and I shouldn’t be yours. We might disagree on how to get somewhere...but there are 100 ways to get to Chicago. But that is what we’ve got to.
David: What is the path forward?
Terry: This will take me to a place where many people will disagree. This takes me back to some of our earlier conversation. I truly believe that the further the country distances itself from practicing Biblical principals that it is never going to change. You have to change people’s hearts. To get them to change. There are good people who care about some of this stuff and they’ll start a fight. There is something about the Lord. Do I practice 100%? I try to. I don’t hit it all the time. But I try to and I have remorse when I don’t hit it. And it is not just about me or my wife and kids. It is about how I conduct myself with the people around here. I leave this (Terry points to the Bible on the desk in front of us) on display not as a show, but to hold me accountable. Do they [my employees] see me reading this on a daily basis? They may say, “Oh sure, the devil reads it. The devil knows it, he just doesn’t believe in it, doesn’t practice it.” So it holds me accountable.
Humility and Choosing a President
Terry: And I think the further people have drifted away from God in our country... I think the Bible teaches us humility. I think we have a lack of that today. I’m with a group of men on Monday nights and we’re going to be studying a book Philippians. One of the passages: “Do you consider others better than yourself?” It doesn’t say it as a questions, it’s as a command. If you start seeing others doing that? What happens to people? We’re like I used to be: “It’s my way or the highway.” What can I do to make your life more fulfilling? How can I make your experience here today more informative. But I have to be willing to say that I am not the key, the hub of the universe. I think there are a lot of biblical principals in there. Humility is somewhat lacking. Given our current President I don’t think he could even spell “humility.” There are people who will look at him and say “he’s a really successful guy.” I voted for him, I’ll be honest with you. But I’ll tell you, it is not because I wanted to, it is because I thought the other candidate wasn’t any better. I looked at him and said “the other people had their chance, let’s try something different.” To this day, I don’t care for a lot of the things that our President does. But he is President, so I have to live with that.
add some Jimmy Carter Characteristics to the mix...
Terry: I’d like to see a strong leader with Jimmy Carter’s characteristics. Jimmy Carter was not as successful as people would have liked, by I think he was genuine, humble person that was compassionate toward other people.
Taxes and Giving it Away
Terry: You can get into taxes. But let’s say you have $100M to your name. Would it bother you to give 20 of it away? Not to family or relatives...give it -- to Houston, Florida, parts of Napa Valley [after the fires]. But you have people who are billionaires and it just rubs me the wrong way that “I don’t want to pay any more taxes.” I don’t want to pay taxes either...and I’m a far way away from $100m a year, I’ll guarantee you that. If you had more people who were more compassionate, more humble...you wouldn’t have to tax me, I’d write the check. I know people who drive automobiles that cost $90,000. I drive a highlander with 133k miles on it. I don’t want to say “greedy” -- I just think it would be nice if people were more generous, with their time, with their wealth. We have some extremely wealthy people. You know, from out where you live. They waste more money out there than they make around here, I think. Is there room for people to be more compassionate? For people to manifest the higher degree of civility? Can we be people who are more humble? I think it is all about attitude. If you asked me the question can we change people’s attitudes? I believe in my heart that it starts here with God’s word. (Terry points to the Bible.)
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| Scaling the oversized trailer - Terry and Peter |
Facility Tour
We spend another 15 minutes receiving a tour of Terry’s operations. He, in turn, tours Dave’s RV and describes his RV, which is built on a Peterbilt on-highway truck chassis.
We exchange a warm “good bye.”
-- Peter
-- Peter
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